Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

General discussions about the tennis games Tennis Elbow
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby cataflic » 23 Apr 2020, 15:00

Hi manutoo,
in Italy(and also in other countries i presume) there are many discussion about real player like Nadal, Murray&co playing real tennis tournaments by pc/console games that are trash compared to your masterpiece.
I suggest to pay attention to this kind of situation because it is an incredible opportunity to spread out with your masterclass and bury the others. :wink:
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby manutoo » 24 Apr 2020, 11:41

polakis,
I hope it'll be moddable, so far I have an extremely limited knowledge of all it works, so I can't promise anything.

cataflic,
if TE4 was done, I may have attempted something, but in the current state, there's not much to be done.
1 important thing to remember is that TE is not an easy game ; most people would need at least 10 hours to reach a decent level, and thus a more arcade game might fit better what the Madrid tournament wants to achieve.
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby brcki » 24 Apr 2020, 15:40

Hi,

I was wondering if there's a gameplay video of TE4 posted somewhere, even a short one? I loved the TE 2013 (kudos to manutoo, you're great man) and was thinking about investing in the game, although I would like to see whereTE4 is going before deciding, thanks!
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby manutoo » 25 Apr 2020, 06:08

ManuTOO
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby fernando » 27 Apr 2020, 21:17

manu when you say tennis elbow take 10 hour to play.. but players atp have lot of time to practice with lockdown so atp player could have practice... you are always loser mindset sorry to say that :roll:
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby manutoo » 28 Apr 2020, 06:26

fernando,
I'm realist. Guys in suits will pick the easy-beautiful-game over the subpar-looking-hard-to-play one, every time. Plus I guess not all real pro players actually want to invest time playing a video game, but I don't have their phone numbers, so I won't be able to ask them... :blackeye:
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby Fernando » 28 Apr 2020, 08:40

1) you dont know competitive people I think because they are competitive all the time even if it is game... you can see in f1 the ferrari pilot play 5 hour everyday f1 2019 on twitch ... give the game to the atp players they do the same because they have big big ego and want to win all the time

2) guy in suit you dont know them: they would be happy to watch good tennis than shit random tennis like they see now... everybody say [Please don't advertize concurrent games] is shit game on facebook and twich so people dont watch the tournament..
no the problem with black suit guys is of course when they see your 1990 website and 1990 in game-menu of trnnis elbow they think "ok this game must be crap" ... in 7 years still not capable to make a sexy menu update or attractive menu... everybody agree with me im sure but nobody talk because you always answer bullshit. Sorry its the truth
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby tennisfan3344 » 28 Apr 2020, 17:01

Fernando wrote:1) you dont know competitive people I think because they are competitive all the time even if it is game... you can see in f1 the ferrari pilot play 5 hour everyday f1 2019 on twitch ... give the game to the atp players they do the same because they have big big ego and want to win all the time

2) guy in suit you dont know them: they would be happy to watch good tennis than shit random tennis like they see now... everybody say [Please don't advertize concurrent games] is shit game on facebook and twich so people dont watch the tournament..
no the problem with black suit guys is of course when they see your 1990 website and 1990 in game-menu of trnnis elbow they think "ok this game must be crap" ... in 7 years still not capable to make a sexy menu update or attractive menu... everybody agree with me im sure but nobody talk because you always answer bullshit. Sorry its the truth


Fernando you better shut your fuck up!

On a serious note, Manu is an incredible developer and one of the few that values the realism of tennis in videogame form. One day idiotic people like you might drive him away from game development and then everyone loses out, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything!!
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby Andrews » 28 Apr 2020, 17:20

Fernando wrote:1) you dont know competitive people I think because they are competitive all the time even if it is game... you can see in f1 the ferrari pilot play 5 hour everyday f1 2019 on twitch ... give the game to the atp players they do the same because they have big big ego and want to win all the time

2) guy in suit you dont know them: they would be happy to watch good tennis than shit random tennis like they see now... everybody say [Please don't advertize concurrent games] is shit game on facebook and twich so people dont watch the tournament..
no the problem with black suit guys is of course when they see your 1990 website and 1990 in game-menu of trnnis elbow they think "ok this game must be crap" ... in 7 years still not capable to make a sexy menu update or attractive menu... everybody agree with me im sure but nobody talk because you always answer bullshit. Sorry its the truth


Are you retarded?.
If you don't like the game, what are you doing here?.Get a life kid.
This is one of the best games, very realistic, and very friendly with modding. If you don't like the menu's you can change it by yourself
Get a life kid.
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby cataflic » 28 Apr 2020, 18:22

Fernando wrote:1) you dont know competitive people I think because they are competitive all the time even if it is game... you can see in f1 the ferrari pilot play 5 hour everyday f1 2019 on twitch ... give the game to the atp players they do the same because they have big big ego and want to win all the time

2) guy in suit you dont know them: they would be happy to watch good tennis than shit random tennis like they see now... everybody say [Please don't advertize concurrent games] is shit game on facebook and twich so people dont watch the tournament..
no the problem with black suit guys is of course when they see your 1990 website and 1990 in game-menu of trnnis elbow they think "ok this game must be crap" ... in 7 years still not capable to make a sexy menu update or attractive menu... everybody agree with me im sure but nobody talk because you always answer bullshit. Sorry its the truth


fernando, my limitate ability in english language prevent me to give you an answer well balanced between ironic and sarcastic...you won't help anyone , please, be careful to make judgements.

manutoo made a wonderful work, to boldly go where none has gone before in tennis pc games.

My point was that I really wish that he could catch big investors cause his work worth it.
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby joshua444 » 29 Apr 2020, 00:23

Bought the early version of TE4 yesterday and I gatta say its amazing, makes those casual tennis games like AO and World Tour look like child's play. And I love how you made it 21:9 supported, meaning the score overlay is displayed properly on the sides of the screen and not in a 16:9 format...I had trouble using 3440x1440 on TE2013 but TE4 works flawlessly. And I love how I can hit on top of the net and the ball goes over, I don't think this was capable in 2013, so keep up the good work and I look forward to the complete game in the future.
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby manutoo » 29 Apr 2020, 09:52

Fernando,
normally, as you can't show a basic civilized behavior, I'd have deleted your post, but there's 1 point that may interest other people reading this thread, so :
1) about the new menus, there have been here for almost 1 year => topic15-31541.php

2) F1 racers can get a near 1:1 simulation with a good F1 racing game. So they should be good in the game. Even more, if the tracks are realistic, they can play and it will train them to remember the tracks when they drive in real life, so it's good for their job.
TE is really not a 1:1 simulation (nor any tennis simulation will ever be). So if Nadal wants to win the next Roland Garros, he's better running in his garden than playing TE, while F1 racers are better playing a racing game than running in their garden.
Moreover, real tennis players will suck at TE at 1st (and likely for a long time). It's incredibly frustrating to not be able to do in a video game things that you can easily do in real life. I know, it's what I feel when I play other tennis games, and I'm f*cking no Federer, so I can only guess how much more annoying it can be for them.

joshua444,
I'm glad to know that you enjoy the game ! :)
And indeed, the net clip changed a bit (although not too much). It was possible to happen in TE2013, but it was quite rare, while the new physics in TE4 give more varied trajectories and thus the ball touches the net more often.
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby ElNino » 30 Apr 2020, 08:10

Fernando wrote:1) you dont know competitive people I think because they are competitive all the time even if it is game... you can see in f1 the ferrari pilot play 5 hour everyday f1 2019 on twitch ... give the game to the atp players they do the same because they have big big ego and want to win all the time

2) guy in suit you dont know them: they would be happy to watch good tennis than shit random tennis like they see now... everybody say [Please don't advertize concurrent games] is shit game on facebook and twich so people dont watch the tournament..
no the problem with black suit guys is of course when they see your 1990 website and 1990 in game-menu of trnnis elbow they think "ok this game must be crap" ... in 7 years still not capable to make a sexy menu update or attractive menu... everybody agree with me im sure but nobody talk because you always answer bullshit. Sorry its the truth


Many people hated this but I have to agree there is also some truth in it. You shouldve not written the last few sentences tho..

The question here is probably more about what this game is made for and what you want to achieve. This game hardly flying under the radar.
I can imagine that the top tennis players will prefer a more realistic game than an arcade game (who knows if some of them already do).
What I dont agree with is that it takes too much time to get a decent level. You can turn that around and say other games lose fun quickly because they are easily mastered in a short time. Dont underestimate the pure joy of making progress, its something that arguably all sportsmen will agree.

I think what Fernando wants to say is that the marketing of TE is not good enough to go further than it is right now.
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby manutoo » 30 Apr 2020, 10:23

tennisfan3344 & Andrews & cataflic,
I had forgotten to say yesterday : thanks for your kind words. :jap:

ElNino,
there's no problem talking about marketing, as long as it's done in a respectful way, like 99.9% of people on this forum... :blackeye:

So the key point in my sentence "I guess not all real pro players actually want to invest time playing a video game", is the "not all".
Or in other word imagine you're the director of Madrid, you have a couple of weeks to put up a virtual tournament with at least 10 big names amongst top ATP players, and you have the choice between a game with relatively modern visuals, which put millions in advertising, and an easy gameplay that will let real tennis players able to do rallies with each other even if they don't have much time or will to put into it, and on the other side, an indie game that you have never heard about if you're not a gamer yourself, with poor visuals, no advertising whatsoever, and with a gameplay where when someone is significantly above the other one, he'll destroy him, just like real tennis, and thus it'll produce match not that fun to watch if not all real ATP players get really into it and play it a lot in that just 2 weeks frame you have (and I guess not all ATP players are serious video gamers).

So I think there's a 99% chance to go with the 1st choice... :)

Ok, I know once that 1st choice is made, and the result is totally crappy, it might not look like a good choice, but suit guys are often dumb like that. (remember I talk from real life experience, I have been in contact several times with suit guys, and I have been in the game industry for 25 years, although much on the side of it since I'm an indie... :blackeye: )

Anyway, if right now TE4 was all shiny & ready, I'll likely be looking for the contact emails of the next real ATP tournament directors. But it's not the case, so I try to focus on my work 1 day at the time, it's already f*cking hard enough like this. :sweat:

And to finish, I said that many times : the 1st thing needed for a meaningful marketing strategy is to have better visuals, and it's the 1st goal exposed for TE4 in the very 1st post of this topic. Once it's done, other things will be possible... :yes:
ManuTOO
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Re: Previsional "Tennis Elbow 4" Planning [Updated!]

Postby ElNino » 01 May 2020, 09:24

I accept your answer :-D
Good luck with TE4 and keep the good work going (Ofc I already pre-ordered at the moment it was possible and posted some suggestions).

It is in fact really nice and as far as I know a novum that the game developer is so real and active in the forums and self reflective. Not easy to deal with bunch of people knowing everything better than you :-D
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