Test Version #2

General discussions about the tennis games Tennis Elbow
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Postby Brad1981 » 12 Sep 2008, 07:38

Grr...Still big problems trying to do a running Nadal shot :( Oh well...
I still feel that at level 2 (1.5 also), the computer is making too many errors, especially overhead. I can understand this if the computer's levels were set lower, but I have set at all 100s...
These 2 things, I think you had better originally, before the last 2-3 updates.
(I was able to do running Nadal shot with just b1+up+down originally, pressed all together). Eh, just my opinions. :P
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Postby manutoo » 12 Sep 2008, 14:42

@Everybody :
New update:
- I lowered again the reflexes of the Levels from 1 to 5
- slice on serve has been lowered too, so it's not too easy to do aces with it
- CPU serves better in level 2 & better ; if u serve well & return well, u should serve about as much aces as you get
- Defender style has been greatly improved : he doesn't have much ball length penalty on Button 1 strike, and he has a top spin bonus, thus he really is the best choice to defend (which is logical ;) )
- the NetPresence didn't work, I fixed it
- several other little tunings

It is likely the last update before the Test Version #3 (menu of the Character Sheet + Network ! ;) ).

So far, I still have very hard time to beat the Level 2 CPU... Actually, I still didn't beat it... I just lost 7/6 (4) ... I'm thinking about putting it at Level 1, and removing the current Level 1.
What would u think about that ?


@R.Valenzuela :
Just noticed it, so the little stat trouble will be fixed on next update... ;)


@btaylor :
I did more tuning about the returner, I hope it'll be still alright for u, but mainly, I lowered his strength on return, so I guess it should be ok... ;)


@Brad1981 :
By "overhead", u meant "smash", right ?
So it was coz of the NetPresence which was always at 0, even if u set it at 100. Now, it should be better...

About the Nadal shot, I guess u need still a bit more practice... :roll:
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Postby Brad1981 » 12 Sep 2008, 16:14

The NetPresence fix helped.
I would prefer that you keep Level 1. It's good to have as much variety as possible, which is what helps make this game so great. There is so much variety and options to choose from and ability to customize, and it is really appreciated.
Couple more things for today: :wink:
1) In the final version, will the error indicators (thing at bottom left of screen and circles around where the ball was hit out) for my player be able to be switched off?
2) Has the mtrun parameter in the .ini been added, or is that for future?
3) Very minor: but I like how the umpire chair stays fixed in TE2008 when set to no side changes. When set to no side changes, I think everything on court should stay constant throughout.
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Postby S.Williamz » 12 Sep 2008, 20:48

I like the moving umpire chair, it's realistic.

I have another question...what kind of helpers and auto-positioning are supposed to be used? Like you said before, the aiming helper wasn't really supposed to be used, only for practice...I've been playing with no helper at all and the slowest auto-positioning, and the game is way too hard and frustrating. I find aiming near the lines almost impossible without the aimer helper, and it's not fun. I've tried it enough times to know that even with more practice it will remain too hard. I know it was easier before and I complained about that but I hadn't tried aiming without the helper yet then lol. Also I find the game considerably more fun with the fastest auto-positioning, so I don't have to feel bad about using it? lol

Also I think it is too hard to pass your opponent when he is at the net...imo it should be much easier to pass your opponent...on the other hand, if you hit the ball at your opponent, he would hit a volley winner in most cases...
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Auto help/Aut positioning

Postby btaylor » 13 Sep 2008, 06:04

Is auto-help the same as auto-positioning? I've been playing with the preview and the auto-positioning turned off with no problems. At first I was having all sorts of grief trying to hit near the lines and posted to you that I thought the keyboard controls were too sensitive, but since you tuned the volleyer and I play a lot more I've gotten much better.Duhh! :shock: If I'm doing OK without the auto-positioning what are the advantages/disadvantages of it? Along with Brad, I also would like to have the option of turning off the error indicators. Also, are you still going to tweak the CPU's sneaky late hits on it's replies when one is at net volleying? Because there are instances where you hit a supposedly conclusive put-away volley and let your guard down only to have the CPU miraculously cover an insane amount of court to get the ball back, cause a volley error, or even hit a winner. While the pros often resort to desperation squash shots, tweenies, etc on defense, it is not so often effective. It's just so frustrating to too often hit what should be a winning volley only to lose the point! :( It seems that volleying is already challenging enough in TE2008 without TOO many miracle gets by the CPU. :wink:
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Postby manutoo » 13 Sep 2008, 08:17

@Brad1981 :
I just added params in the .ini for all the 3 points, so they'll be there for next update.

Though, I'm not sure why u want to turn off the visual hints when u do a fault, I think it's very helpful to show u what mistake u did, and help u to improve ur game...

Btw, if u always play with MTRUN, it's normal the CPU does too much faults, coz it can't do much winners against u ! ;)
(except if u have very very low reflexes :P )


@S.Williamz :
>> Helpers :
The aiming helper should be used only by beginners.
For me, it even perturbs my timing, and make me stop to focus on the ball and my player placement, so against higher difficulty levels, I think it's even handicapping to use it..! :shock:
As well, the fast auto-positioning should preferably be used only by beginners coz the auto-placement is done to be safe at 100%, while a good player might want to take additional risks to overwhelm his opponent (ie: take the ball a bit earlier).
But I think that playing only with the slow auto-positioning is too hard against higher difficult levels, and personally, I'm playing with the average one, which I feel to be a good gameplay balance.

I think I'll force the online mode to use the average auto-pos, for this previous reason, but also coz it'll help more to fight the lag than using the slow auto-pos.

But by any means, u are supposed to play with the helper configuration that make u enjoy the game the most, that's why they are here ! ;)

>> Passing:
use the short acceleration..!
It needs to be very well placed, and have enough preparation time to get enough precision, but it's almost always a sure winner.
For me, it feels to be a good balance between volley vs passing.
You can also do the old tactic to lob then do the regular acceleration, but it works a lot less well than in TE2006, as the CPU usually smashes better.


@btaylor :
There's no "auto-help", only the "auto-positioning"... ;)
You can't turn off the auto-positioning, u can at most put it on slow (then result is same than in TE2006).
On slow, it's really very hard to do good accelerations while playing against the CPU on Level 3 & 2, as well as defending... (at least for me :) )
If you have a great eye, and place urself always very well, then u can play on slow auto-pos and tell other players u own them..! :p

>> CPU's sneaky late hits:
So far, I'm satisfied with the current tuning.
I guess u're using the normal strike (b1) for ur volleys... Thus, the ball is really not that fast, and it's normal ur opponent catches the ball.
Use the acceleration on balls slightly higher than the net (30 or 40cm), while it's well in ur racket cord, and u'll do winners than ur opponent almost cannot even start to run after..!
But it needs to have a good eye & some training, to judge when the ball is high enough to do the acceleration.


@Myself : (and other people interested by the inner run of the game development ;) )

A few months ago, I looked the CPU vs CPU mode of Roland Garros 2005 on Playstation 2.
AFAIK, this is the only tennis game that proposes to see CPU vs CPU matches except TE2006.

In that time, I was really impressed by the matches, and I felt it was really realistic. I even had a look at TE2006 CPU vs CPU mode after, and was kinda ashamed, especially by the volley system & CPU behavior at net... :oops:

I spent the whole week watching TE2009 CPU vs CPU mode, to make it realistic, and find gameplay flows.
So this morning, I decided to have a look again at RG2005, anxious to know if TE2009 would be able to compete against it on the CPU vs CPU mode.
I started a match, and... I had a good laugh..! :P
There's even no competition, TE2009 smashes it totally..! :toothy10:
The ball physics, the speed, the players' positioning, the strikes, everything in TE2009 is way better than in RG2005..! :cheers:
In RG2005, the CPU places itself on the baseline most of time, very often places itself in the wrong left/right place and just stick in place after the last shot ; an awful amount of balls fly (levitate ?) till the baseline, and thus, often the CPU hits the ball before the rebound, and still manage to do another flying ball that finishes less than 1 meter to the opposite baseline... I stop there the bashing, but it's only by pity & laziness... :p

The only thing that TE2009 really misses now compared to AAA games is a better visual (including 3D courts), and to have a lot more animations, especially the ones to show when the CPU is in difficulty at the net, to help to understand his choices...
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Auto-Positioning

Postby btaylor » 13 Sep 2008, 08:34

Manu, Is auto-positioning like when your player makes the subtle adjustment steps to get in the best position to strike the ball during rallies? :scratch:
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Postby manutoo » 13 Sep 2008, 08:42

btaylor, yup, it's that... :)
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Auto-Positioning

Postby btaylor » 13 Sep 2008, 08:46

So.....it's probably better to use at least some level of auto-positioning than none at all? 1=fastest,5=slowest? Also are the CPU's volleys softer/slower or is it just my imagination?
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Postby manutoo » 13 Sep 2008, 08:48

u have 3 levels of auto-pos: slow, average & fast.
And it's the same speed for all type of players.
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Postby Algo » 13 Sep 2008, 15:37

my character is an idiot at cpu vs cpu :lol:
sometimes, its like its not hitting the ball(something like what happens on '06) but its hit anyways, i don't how to explain it :x
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Postby manutoo » 13 Sep 2008, 15:59

R.Valenzuela, it happens when the ball passes the CPU, and he's running after it, and can eventually reach it, right ? It's kinda rare, no ?

Except that, is there any other "idiot" behavior..? :roll:
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Postby Algo » 13 Sep 2008, 16:13

i wasn't saying that its an idiot because he can get balls that for me are impossible, is just that he made a lot of wrong decisions :lol:
what i was saying about that, is that sometimes the ball is far away from the racket and the player hits it anyways(more than an arm of distance)
Image[/img]
Last edited by Algo on 13 Sep 2008, 16:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby manutoo » 13 Sep 2008, 16:22

oh ok :)
So it's normal, it's same than TE2006, your player always does the strike animation, even if u're too far of the ball, in case u reach it in time, or just to help u to better judge how far away u were from the ball when u should have hit it.
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Postby Algo » 13 Sep 2008, 16:28

but, if it's too far to get the ball, why is he getting it anyways?, maybe its just my appreciation and its not like that :roll:
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