Issues with Tour Draws

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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Mehdi » 03 May 2015, 20:34

I couldn't meet same players in every Masters Tours , that's really a borring thing i guess , things must be clear ; i met Dr Ivo for 3 times in Masters tours this season in the same Round
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Maryanucci » 03 May 2015, 20:46

About draw,
yes I think that some draws repeats somethimes. I ussualy play with my friend ShoNe in doubles in first possible round.
Also in singles Salimo can't miss me in draw, and ussualy Dr.Ivo is in my part. They are both great players and I like to challenge them,
but also I'm sure that they are not happy to play against 2nd seed at the beggining of every single tournament.
Just to be clear, I'm not accusing anyone, especially because I do not know how the draw works, but if there some unfairnless please don't do that anymore.

I just know that system should work on this way (32 players example):

1st round
We have 8 seeds players which should play against 8 random non-seeds players, and other 16 players should be drawed randomly.
2nd round
We have 8 seeds positions which should play against other winners from first round.
Quarter final
1,2,3,4 seeds players should randomly play against 5,6,7,8 seed players
Semi final
1 and 2 seeds players can meet 3th or 4th seed players (posible draw 1-4 2-3 or 1-3 2-4)
Final
1st and 2nd seeds position players(3th and 4th also) in draw can meet only in final.

Of course when seed lose, his place take player who defeat him.

I'm not sure, do we have 4 pots in this case? If we have, repeaing will be more often.
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby manutoo » 04 May 2015, 11:27

So 2 options :
1- a lot of people here need a crash course on probabilities
2- the random function used by the draw creator isn't random and give always the same results
So I checked 2 similar & recent draws : OT_ViewTournament.php?Trn=811 & OT_ViewTournament.php?Trn=797 . Seeds aren't placed in the same place, so the random function is really random.
So the good answer is Option 1... :whistle:

Bonus explanations :
- Tour Mods don't create draw, I'm the only one to be able to delete the draw when there's some mistake on creation
- Algo didn't get a ranking in Madrid, this means a Tour Mod started the draw creation process early (which gives a ranking to all queued players), and Algo queued after, and then another Mod (or the same one) did the final creation step (which is actually creating the draw by placing all the players in it) ; normally both steps should be done together so missing ranking couldn't happen
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Chris Jacob » 04 May 2015, 12:12

about draws.. and mods ..if we have 2 small tournament on a week 250 or atp500 sampreas and heinrich never play on the same tournament ..why? because sampreas can see who will play on the tournaments and he afraid of heinrich thats why he choose the other tournaments...its not so fair ...
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Sale93 » 04 May 2015, 18:25

MY OPPONENTS:
Doha, Quito & Memphis - Naastooo
Hong Kong, Rannanna - A.Radwanska
AO, Napoli - DeSantos
AO, Monte Carlo - Nadalesque
___________________________________________
Doha 2rnd, Quito 2rnd and Memphis 2rnd...I lose from Naastooo...for 5 weeks, 3 times the same opponent in the second round...LOL!
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DOUBLES: 10 (10)
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Sale93 » 04 May 2015, 18:34

and it is not clear how this is done draw: OT_ViewTournament.php?Trn=919

as I am not among seeds, and the best I've ranked all participants of the tournament?
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby MarkChan » 04 May 2015, 19:04

Sale93 wrote:and it is not clear how this is done draw: OT_ViewTournament.php?Trn=919

as I am not among seeds, and the best I've ranked all participants of the tournament?

You should be seeded 1 in this tournament and you are not even seeded in the end.
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GS: Australian Open '15,Roland Garros '15(RU)
Masters: Paris '14(RU),Madrid '15(RU),Rome '15(RU)
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby MarkChan » 04 May 2015, 19:09

manutoo wrote:So 2 options :
1- a lot of people here need a crash course on probabilities
2- the random function used by the draw creator isn't random and give always the same results
So I checked 2 similar & recent draws : OT_ViewTournament.php?Trn=811 & OT_ViewTournament.php?Trn=797 . Seeds aren't placed in the same place, so the random function is really random.
So the good answer is Option 1... :whistle:

Bonus explanations :
- Tour Mods don't create draw, I'm the only one to be able to delete the draw when there's some mistake on creation
- Algo didn't get a ranking in Madrid, this means a Tour Mod started the draw creation process early (which gives a ranking to all queued players), and Algo queued after, and then another Mod (or the same one) did the final creation step (which is actually creating the draw by placing all the players in it) ; normally both steps should be done together so missing ranking couldn't happen

Firstly, the example you provide is not as good as my IW and Miami examples. Barcelona is in April and Acapulco is in February. And they have different number of entries while the main draws in IW and Miami doubles are full. They are also held in back-to-back weeks.

Secondly, if that's the reason behind Algo's case in Madrid, then it just proves that mods make another mistake(and maybe the same mod) added to the endless mistakes he've made already this season.

I think you should just read the many convincing evidences here and look into the ways the draws are made. Your example of Barcelona and Acapulco is much less convincing than the examples players provided here. Now I would just wait to draw VampireZattitude again in Rome and Roland Garros the earliest possible round maybe and I hope at that time you will not tell me it is coincidence again. Because I calculated the probability that I get her so many times consecutively in the tournaments that both of us are present and I get 2/8 (Metz, I am unseeded) X 2/16 (Shanghai, I am unseeded) X 2/32(AO, I am unseeded) X 1/2(Madrid, I am seed 4) so far. [She is always seeded 1] That means it is 0.09%. My probability knowledge tells me this is very rare. I should just play lottery instead of TE maybe.
Last edited by MarkChan on 04 May 2015, 19:31, edited 5 times in total.
Singles Titles and Finalists:
250: Kuala Lumpur '15
Challenger: Georgia F1 '14,Wroclaw '16

Doubles Titles and Finalists:
GS: Australian Open '15,Roland Garros '15(RU)
Masters: Paris '14(RU),Madrid '15(RU),Rome '15(RU)
250: Kuala Lumpur '14,Doha '16
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby NESXA » 04 May 2015, 19:10

Sale93 wrote:as I am not among seeds, and the best I've ranked all participants of the tournament?


You didn't get a ranking in Busan, this means Heinrich started the draw creation process early (which gives a ranking to all queued players), and you queued after, and then another Mod (or the same one) did the final creation step (which is actually creating the draw by placing all the players in it) ; normally both steps should be done together so missing ranking couldn't happen.

manutoo wrote:Tour Mods don't create draw ... a Tour Mod started the draw creation process ... and then another Mod (or the same one) did the final creation step


I am confused. :O
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 04 May 2015, 19:35

Sale93 wrote:as I am not among seeds, and the best I've ranked all participants of the tournament?

Already fixed for upcoming tournaments.

Kind regards,
Heinrich von Westphalen.
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Algo » 04 May 2015, 21:08

ShoNe wrote:
I am confused. :O

All we do is clicking create, clicking confirm and draw is made.

Can you please stop trying to create a false distrust on us.

If we click on create but not confirm it, we'll get the seeding list. If someone applies in the meantime of that and confirming the draw creation, probably won't get a ranking.
That was supposed to have been fixed, but I guess it wasn't?
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby NESXA » 04 May 2015, 21:38

Algo wrote:Can you please stop trying to create a false distrust on us.

Can I answer you here or you want on skype?

Algo wrote:If we click on create but not confirm it, we'll get the seeding list. If someone applies in the meantime of that and confirming the draw creation, probably won't get a ranking.

So, If I am right. you clicked to create the draw without your registration in that tournament, and you didn't confirm. After that, you queue in Madrid. And because of that, you are in qualification's draw? I know your obligation is to create draw for masters tournaments. And you want to tell me that you are not in main draw because of your mistake? You should queue in draw before creating it. It is expected.
TOUR MOD (GRAND SLAMS, MASTERS, DAVIS CUP) - SKYPE (SHONEEEEE95)
RANKING: CURRENT (BEST) -----> S: No.8 (No.2) -----> D: N/A (No.1)
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Algo » 04 May 2015, 23:16

ShoNe wrote:So, If I am right. you clicked to create the draw without your registration in that tournament, and you didn't confirm. After that, you queue in Madrid. And because of that, you are in qualification's draw? I know your obligation is to create draw for masters tournaments. And you want to tell me that you are not in main draw because of your mistake? You should queue in draw before creating it. It is expected.


Busted :unsure:

Geez, I probably can't back it up with the moderation queue but it wasn't me that checked the seeding list before I queued.
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby NESXA » 04 May 2015, 23:44

Not before you queued, I said before you created the draw, you must queue if you know how system works and if you want to play in main draw. Don't change point of this. Try to answer Lets Go Bro, what is happened with US Open doubles last year. :O And if you have some questions, contact me on skype and I will explain you everything.
TOUR MOD (GRAND SLAMS, MASTERS, DAVIS CUP) - SKYPE (SHONEEEEE95)
RANKING: CURRENT (BEST) -----> S: No.8 (No.2) -----> D: N/A (No.1)
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Re: Issues with Tour Draws

Postby Sale93 » 05 May 2015, 05:00

If everything is clicking, I think that the modern useless because they are not competent to do the job. My opinion...I dont want to offend them, but that's it.
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