3D Engine Modification

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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 06 Nov 2013, 14:04

fhoneill wrote:I agree. You can see in big budget sports titles now that the physics engine is one of the primary selling points right down to the fact that it is something that they highlight in previews as being one of the 'key features'. Very few games though have struck the right balance with the physics engine thus far which allows the game to have the realistic physics but also to feature gameplay that doesn't feel like the AI is cheating.

As for optical authenticity then it's easy to see the profound effect it has by looking at how well the EA Sports series of games sells. Never under estimate the power behind allowing the game to play something that feels 'authentic'. Opening the door to the community is a fantastic way of getting around the need for licenses etc and also allows the work of creating new content to be spread amongst many people as opposed to being on the shoulders of one developer. If I was to be critical of one aspect of Tennis Elbow I'd highlight the menus as being something that feels very dated. Absolutely nothing wrong with them but there are better ways to present the information which I'm sure we shall see in future.

Where I would disagree though is that things like 3D stadiums are not necessary. If you want authenticity and the full immersive experience then I believe you have to go to that level. They are not difficult to create but they do offer up a better feeling than the 3D player models on a 2D background experience. There is nothing wrong with the latter of course but I was merely talking about 'stepping up' in future.

One thing I have been impressed with in terms of presentation is the little cutscenes that Top Spin 4 introduced. They can be repetitive and some people may not like them but in terms of presentation they add that little touch of almost TV like quality to the game. Of course they are no requirement to create a fantastic tennis game but a nice addition to improve the atmosphere and feel of the experience.

CD


3D stadiums are not easy because they are memory hogs and a lot of work. In TE, they are simple and you have nearly the same feeling on every surface. For example in PES, a team of 6 developer (and they are pros) needed six month to create an authentic football stadium incl. crowd, lights, shadows etc. (which means 100k+ development cost as well) . It's impossible to realise this by one person for a tennis game, and much less for a modder who spend his leisure time for it.

Kind regards,
Heinrich.
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby fhoneill » 06 Nov 2013, 14:16

It's not impossible at all. You used PES as an example which I was surprised by given the number of custom build stadiums made by the community for the last four or five version of PES. Granted there is nothing for PES 14 yet but there are 100s of stadium models for PES 13. A good example of a few would be here: http://pesedit.com/forums/showthread.ph ... Bridge-!!!!

Of course you do need the framework around which to build the models and nobody is building a good looking stadium in a night (Rome wasn't built in a day etc) but it is not impossible.
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 06 Nov 2013, 14:54

fhoneill wrote:It's not impossible at all. You used PES as an example which I was surprised by given the number of custom build stadiums made by the community for the last four or five version of PES. Granted there is nothing for PES 14 yet but there are 100s of stadium models for PES 13. A good example of a few would be here: http://pesedit.com/forums/showthread.ph ... Bridge-!!!!

Of course you do need the framework around which to build the models and nobody is building a good looking stadium in a night (Rome wasn't built in a day etc) but it is not impossible.


Well, these modders just create the textures.
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby fhoneill » 06 Nov 2013, 15:05

Not at all. The stadiums themselves are modelled in Rhino 4, then textured before being used in the game via the Stadium Server tool.

There's a lot of documentation out there on how it's done which you can read up on if you wish but it's a fairly simple process and there are plenty of people modelling the stadiums

Here's an in-progress shot of one from a few years back.
Image

I don't want to go too off topic here as it's tennis games and Tennis Elbow I wish to discuss but I thought it was worth showing what is possible these days.
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Nigogu » 06 Nov 2013, 16:36

Heinrich von Westphalen wrote: So it is clever by developer to open source in these things (but not enough I think).

I think it's a lot of work to him to give open source, and then anyone can make copies of his game with different name, or someone can steal a part of the open source to introduce it to their games... Obviously you could do a lot of great things with open source, but that is the risk manuTOO wants to avoid....
Regards :jap:
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 06 Nov 2013, 16:42

Nigogu wrote:I think it's a lot of work to him to give open source, and then anyone can make copies of his game with different name, or someone can steal a part of the open source to introduce it to their games... Obviously you could do a lot of great things with open source, but that is the risk manuTOO wants to avoid....
Regards :jap:


I know ... I mean more little things like shadows or ingame things like change ends etc. General engine must be protected, of course.

Kind regards,
Heinrich.
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Nigogu » 06 Nov 2013, 16:58

Heinrich von Westphalen wrote:I know ... I mean more little things like shadows or ingame things like change ends etc......

I think you should work with manutoo in private, so: only you can access to a part of the source, to mod the game, and everybody is fine ':D
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Hele. » 07 Nov 2013, 22:12

Oh my, I barely could keep my breath while watching this teaser! Heinrich, it is truely awesome! Thank you for your awesome work. It is not only knowledge, but you need to have inspiration and talent to do such things! Thank you!
I just want to ask you something. Since you seem to be expert for 3D, please, pleaseeeee, can you borrow long hair/braid style that most WTA players have on the tour? I would like to see it soooo much in the game. I know, once I played Fila World Tour Tennis (game from 2002.) and I remember this style was available in the game. ;)
http://www.gameswelt.de/fila-world-tour ... 59#picture
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 07 Nov 2013, 22:19

Hele. wrote:Oh my, I barely could keep my breath while watching this teaser! Heinrich, it is truely awesome! Thank you for your awesome work. It is not only knowledge, but you need to have inspiration and talent to do such things! Thank you!
I just want to ask you something. Since you seem to be expert for 3D, please, pleaseeeee, can you borrow long hair/braid style that most WTA players have on the tour? I would like to see it soooo much in the game. I know, once I played Fila World Tour Tennis (game from 2002.) and I remember this style was available in the game. ;)
http://www.gameswelt.de/fila-world-tour ... 59#picture

I have to access to modify human framework, sorry.

Kind regards,
Heinrich.
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Re: 3D Engine Modification

Postby Hele. » 07 Nov 2013, 23:25

Thank you for fast answer. :) But how you mean to access? :thinking: As far as I know, body frameworks also can be modded. I tried to do at least simple mod, but so far without success. :cry: topic29-12957.php
Anyway, it seems long hair never will come in the game. :( :( :cry: :cry:
Hele.
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