Mana Games

[gae1000]

te it is a very nice videogame.
all modders (especially lucian86, sam, jdraco) did become fantastic!!!!!!!!!I'm with Lucian86
Please make this game still Manuto biggest

[MarianoEG]

so, itst people works with animations of Lucian.. neeky m4n4c0r, between others... i dont know what they are so against Lucian said, what he post here was definitely valid and able to do. manutoo want to take it or not, well.. thats for him..but you have to stop , cause you said too much and you are the first ones to benefits with the anims...as everybody...,all over this topic you are like "ITST this...ITST that"... uuuffff...as Lucian said, the gameplay is seeing on the animations, then the rest, visually you look first the anim, and the similarity of Fed, Nadal ,Djokos.. etc. he make his effort to do it...you make your effort to your patch... with anims, you can still tryin manutoos ones... but you dont have to talk about itst cause you used this anims too... and you still gonna used it. maybe SamModder also have to said something too, or Dilima, but they didnt.. cause they dont brag about it. so, try to keep this as the topic calls.. and thats it. is paying for new anims? , no My patch is much better...

[VMoe86]

You made MANY valid points, I respect that. I still disagree about "correct" animations being a sales drive one needs to look at ALL big tennis titles out-there to see that it is simply not so. Graphics and presentation (nicely pointed out by you) are the key.

As long as the animations are not totally wrong (one-handed BH for Nadal, for instance ) neither quality nor quantity are that important for the casual video gamer or even the casual tennis fan -- just taking a look at Top Spin 4 and its success is enough.

Personally, the only thing I really care about in animations is a good gameplay feeling and a solid resemblance of the player. When I play TE, I only look at the feet of my character, the ball, my character's racquet and where my opponent is standing. If you want to play TE on a high level, you don't even have time to appreciate exceptional animations (or great graphics and presentation).

Why should someone buy the game because of (almost) perfect Federer animations? A diehard Federer fanboy might do this, a diehard tennis fan would say "Ok, nice to have, but how does it play?". Your casual tennis fan (just watching a couple of matches, not following every tournament there is) or your casual video gamer: I highly doubt that they have any issues with the Federer animations available in the game, because they do not know the exact motions of Federer by heart. To get them interested, you need something else (manutoo mentioned it).

[djarvik]

so, itst people works with animations of Lucian.. neeky m4n4c0r, between others... i dont know what they are so against Lucian said, what he post here was definitely valid and able to do. manutoo want to take it or not, well.. thats for him..but you have to stop , cause you said too much and you are the first ones to benefits with the anims...as everybody...,all over this topic you are like "ITST this...ITST that"... uuuffff...as Lucian said, the gameplay is seeing on the animations, then the rest, visually you look first the anim, and the similarity of Fed, Nadal ,Djokos.. etc. he make his effort to do it...you make your effort to your patch... with anims, you can still tryin manutoos ones... but you dont have to talk about itst cause you used this anims too... and you still gonna used it. maybe SamModder also have to said something too, or Dilima, but they didnt.. cause they dont brag about it. so, try to keep this as the topic calls.. and thats it. is paying for new anims? , no My patch is much better...

I think you need to re-read the whole thread, carefully this time. You can then see the link and why I said what I say and mentioned what I did.

I understand that you are Lucian Fan, I am too a fan of his work, but I am allowed to disagree, so lets just leave it at that.


...and think about how EXACTLY ITST benefits from Lucian animations, think what do we "get" out of it in the end...

[MarianoEG]

no need to re read nothing or nobody... ok? im not a lucian "fan" as you said... i support him ... but, "fan"¿? let this things for the youngs... this topic is for an important issue, as you said, everyone is allowed to disagree... but disagree with this situation,dont mix your stuff in here. and Im talkin too much already :/

[djarvik]

So you saying I am to disagree without argumenting myself? Don't answer, its a rhetoric question.

[MarianoEG]

well said...

[SPC]

As long as the animations are not totally wrong (one-handed BH for Nadal, for instance ) neither quality nor quantity are that important for the casual video gamer or even the casual tennis fan -- just taking a look at Top Spin 4 and its success is enough.

Personally, the only thing I really care about in animations is a good gameplay feeling and a solid resemblance of the player. When I play TE, I only look at the feet of my character, the ball, my character's racquet and where my opponent is standing. If you want to play TE on a high level, you don't even have time to appreciate exceptional animations (or great graphics and presentation).

Why should someone buy the game because of (almost) perfect Federer animations? A diehard Federer fanboy might do this, a diehard tennis fan would say "Ok, nice to have, but how does it play?". Your casual tennis fan (just watching a couple of matches, not following every tournament there is) or your casual video gamer: I highly doubt that they have any issues with the Federer animations available in the game, because they do not know the exact motions of Federer by heart. To get them interested, you need something else (manutmentioned it).

Then I disagree with this, as indeed animations close to real players bring a lot of interest to the game, BUT to ask more for than what the game is worth for one animation is quite ridiculous to be honest. He could have even negotiate a couple of more valid keys for the game and it would have been ok.

And yet again why Lucian did not ask for this before doing the animations so he could have saved himself from losing all the time he is spent in doing them.

Lucian also forgets that he is using Manutoo platform to create this animations as well, without the game they are nothing and this does not work the opposite way, without the anims the game is great plain and simple.

And Djarkiv makes a valid point if Lucian is to be paid for anims, then a lot of other modders could ask for the same thing.

[Lucian86]

Personally, the only thing I really care about in animations is a good gameplay feeling and a solid resemblance of the player. When I play TE, I only look at the feet of my character, the ball, my character's racquet and where my opponent is standing. If you want to play TE on a high level, you don't even have time to appreciate exceptional animations (or great graphics and presentation).

Quite fair points but still, anims very are important imo and makes the game look a lot better, even if you're an online hardcore player (it depends case by case).... besides that, not everybody is that kind of a player (I'm not for instance).

Why should someone buy the game because of (almost) perfect Federer animations? A diehard Federer fanboy might do this, a diehard tennis fan would say "Ok, nice to have, but how does it play?". Your casual tennis fan (just watching a couple of matches, not following every tournament there is) or your casual video gamer: I highly doubt that they have any issues with the Federer animations available in the game, because they do not know the exact motions of Federer by heart. To get them interested, you need something else (manutoo mentioned it).

As you said, a hardcore Federer fanboy might buy the game for that (all you need is 9 new guys like that to cover the cost). I agree that a diehard tennis fan would probably buy the game regardless of the animations but I'm not so sure about a casual tennis fan who generally don't play TE but VT or Top Spin...I personally think that these animations might convince some of them to buy the game. Why ? TS and VT's animations of these 3 players are definetely smoother and more professional worked than mine but they're not more realistic imo. They might see a video with Fed's animations for instance, see that they're very realistic, play the demo and like the gameplay (it's difficult not to) and decide to buy the game...it can happen...we're not talking about selling hundreds of copies here....Just 9 is enough

Then I disagree with this, as indeed animations close to real players bring a lot of interest to the game, BUT to ask more for than what the game is worth for one animation is quite ridiculous to be honest. He could have even negotiate a couple of more valid keys for the game and it would have been ok.

And yet again why Lucian did not ask for this before doing the animations so he could have saved himself from losing all the time he is spent in doing them.

Lucian also forgets that he is using Manutoo platform to create this animations as well, without the game they are nothing and this does not work the opposite way, without the anims the game is great plain and simple.

And Djarkiv makes a valid point if Lucian is to be paid for anims, then a lot of other modders could ask for the same thing.

You're quite off of our discussion in my opinion

1. I don't see how the price of one game's copy and the amount of money I'm asking are being related.....Suppose Manutoo knew with certainty that 100 people would buy the game if these animations will be incorporated into the official game....Suppose I'm also aware of this fact and I'd ask Manutoo 50% of the sales amount...If you were Manutoo, what would you do ? Consider your choices...Either you get the other 50%, either nothing 0. You see the point ? So the argument you have to make if this is possible, if my animations are able alone to sell new copies....That's the point that some of the guys here argued and which I respect and disagree in some parts.

2. I've never said I wasted my time on creating these animations

3. About Manutoo offering me the platforms and so on, I send you back the the point 1......but let me make you an example...The firm that hired you is offering you the platform to work on...It's not that you work for free though. They pay you and the more return you get for the firm, the more they pay you.

4. I've already explained this point (about the other mods)

[SPC]

Then I disagree with this, as indeed animations close to real players bring a lot of interest to the game, BUT to ask more for than what the game is worth for one animation is quite ridiculous to be honest. He could have even negotiate a couple of more valid keys for the game and it would have been ok.

And yet again why Lucian did not ask for this before doing the animations so he could have saved himself from losing all the time he is spent in doing them.

Lucian also forgets that he is using Manutoo platform to create this animations as well, without the game they are nothing and this does not work the opposite way, without the anims the game is great plain and simple.

And Djarkiv makes a valid point if Lucian is to be paid for anims, then a lot of other modders could ask for the same thing.

You're quite off of our discussion in my opinion

1. I don't see how the price of one game's copy and the amount of money I'm asking are being related.....Suppose Manutoo knew with certainty that 100 people would buy the game if these animations will be incorporated into the official game....Suppose I'm also aware of this fact and I'd ask Manutoo 50% of the sales amount...If you were Manutoo, what would you do ? Consider your choices...Either you get the other 50%, either nothing 0. You see the point ? So the argument you have to make if this is possible, if my animations are able alone to sell new copies....That's the point that some of the guys here argued and which I respect and disagree in some parts.

2. I've never said I wasted my time on creating these animations

3. About Manutoo offering me the platforms and so on, I send you back the the point 1......but let me make you an example...The firm that hired you is offering you the platform to work on...It's not that you work for free though. They pay you and the more return you get for the firm, the more they pay you.

4. I've already explained this point (about the other mods)

Lucían You dont work for Manutoo, neither he had an agreement with you before doing those animations so I don't see why he should pay you now after you created those animations. I think a different story would have been if you had said this earlier, before making them. The end results are that your new animations won't be in the game so you can be happy and maybe all other non Manutoo ones are stipped from the game?

I guess you can sell them to other people playing? Or maybe not they are already out there in the modders post?

[Lucian86]

Lucían You dont work for Manutoo, neither he had an agreement with you before doing those animations so I don't see why he should pay you now after you created those animations. I think a different story would have been if you had said this earlier, before making them. The end results are that your new animations won't be in the game so you can be happy and maybe all other non Manutoo ones are stipped from the game?

I guess you can sell them to other people playing? Or maybe not they are already out there in the modders post?

Not sure if it's me not interpreting well what you wrote or it's you who's missing the point here

I DIDN'T SAY: "Hey Manutoo, I've created some good animations that I think it will increase you sales so pay me"

It's more like: "Hey Manutoo, I've created some good animations that I'll release soon (which I did offline) and I think it will increase your sales if you bundle them into the official game; do you want to buy them ?"

I don't ask Manutoo what I think is worth to me for doing these animations. He has no debt towards me

I want to sell him the animations to be bundled into the official game...I made a proposal..it's up to him to accept or not (and he didn't)