Mana Games

[KINGBARBOZA]

Will this ever be reconsidered?

The current serve system is too dumbed down and RNG-based it can be ridiculous sometimes.
If you hit an accel serve, you have 0 control of whether the ball goes in or out, and the same with the speed. It's all decided by stats + chance.
Some sort of timing system, or even just adding a power gauge to give the player more control of the serve speed would greatly improve it.
At the moment its just hold button + x% chance on whether it is fast or goes in.

[manutoo]

KINGBARBOZA,
it's still not sure, but I'll probably give this a try when I work on the gameplay in the incoming months.

Most people who have expressed concerns in this topic didn't read the explanation and thought it'd be a timing system to succeed or fail the service, which is not my intent.

So even if I do it, it won't address your concern and it'd still be an RNG system for net/long faults. However, now & in the future, you always control the left/right faults. And right now, you decide between 3 possible power levels. I'd like to have ~100 of them instead...

[KINGBARBOZA]

Think it's an awesome idea. Serving is one aspect of TE where I think there could be a lot more aspects in control by the player, rather than RNG.

[squeakybum]

KINGBARBOZA,
it's still not sure, but I'll probably give this a try when I work on the gameplay in the incoming months.

Most people who have expressed concerns in this topic didn't read the explanation and thought it'd be a timing system to succeed or fail the service, which is not my intent.

So even if I do it, it won't address your concern and it'd still be an RNG system for net/long faults. However, now & in the future, you always control the left/right faults. And right now, you decide between 3 possible power levels. I'd like to have ~100 of them instead...

If a power gauge is implemented when serving would stats still define the range for min/max power? I think that would be a good idea so a big server serves anything from like 120mph to 140mph and a midget, maybe from 90 to 110, while you have control of that number by means of the power gauge. I also don't think 100% slice serve in rate is realistic, maybe changing RNG to something around 96% would be better, and having a power gauge would allow you to use some more options rather than slice for the second serve or normal which can lead to double faults. Probably just need one button for power, and then slice or topspin added as a combo for effect on the serve (e.g. kick or sidespin) as some good servers currently employ. I also think this would be a good idea as generally the way I was used to serving in te2013 was as if there was control over power and timing even though I subsequently found out there was none, it was all RNG, and it was all just in my head. I think keeping RNG for net/long faults is good but for power there should be more range and control, maybe even depending on when you make contact with the ball during the service motion (timing aspect). And finally I think in te4 it became considerably difficult just for your serve to land in the service box compared to te2013, with the fast accel serves aiming for the lines, many times it doesnt go over the net or lands long/wide. I've also noticed that the AI in simulated sets struggles to serve above 50% which is quite odd, regardless of their stats .

[manutoo]

squeakybum,
1) the power gauge limit would be still the same as the current one :
- safe serve = 0% power (100% success rate)
- normal serve = 50% power
- stronger serve = 100% power
More power = fewer chances to be in

2) The sliced serve doesn't have 100% chance in ; it works the same as in point 1)

3) You already have slice & topspin buttons for the service in Settings -> Controls -> Player 1. Have you played the game ?

4) I won't add a timing system for success (plus it'd not work online)

knich,
I moved your post in its own topic : topic15-34317.php .

[squeakybum]

Hi Manu in regards to point 2.) I was referring to the “safe serve” or b2 serve (see attached pic). From my understanding that has a 100% chance to land in unless you aim wide.

In regards to point 3.) I have played since tennis elbow 2011, my point was that safe, normal, accel serves may not be needed as separate inputs for the serve when there’s a power gauge system, but you can just add slice or topspin to your serve as a combo as I do for the kick serve, kick second serve with side spin, or accel flat wide or down the T.

4.) Okay well I think it makes sense in a tennis game that where you make contact with the ball would impact whether the ball lands long or into the net, and even speed and serving with someone with a high ball toss vs a quick ball toss would impact your serve efficiency. Some may not be aware that they have no mechanical control on their serve other than whether it lands wide, and it’s natural to think that how you time your serve would impact how well you serve.

[Fed1]

Hi everyone, just wanted to give my opinion on the matter here. I think serve should be split in 2 parts: Decision and execution. Power, effect and location should be a decision made before the actual serve (thus it doesn't make sense to have a power bar/level), but the execution should be a time event, so pressing the button at the sweet spot of impact should give you the shot you decided in the first step. Obviously, the more power/precision should narrow down the sweet spot so hitting a perfect serve should be a bit trickier.

I also have a wild idea that can add more depth to the serve, but it can make it harder. What if we have a ball toss event? So, you decide Power, effect and location first, then you start the event (serve) with the strike button, then you have to release that button at the exact time (You know, when the ball is exactly in front of you), and then click it again in the sweet spot. Not releasing the button properly should reduce the chance of the serve going in (releasing to soon should go to the net, too late should be out), adding an extra layer of depth. Add that the fact that every serve animation is different, so the timing is kind of unique for each one, and you have a unique combination of depth to serve.
To make it a bit easier, you can add visual helpers both for power and events, so you'll know when to press the buttons.

Anyway, it's just an idea, hope someone likes it!
Thanks!

[manutoo]

squeakybum,
2) The sliced 2nd serve doesn't give a big enough advantage that I'd want to lower its success rate.

3) Yes, the power meter would likely remove the need to have 3 different power buttons

4) I have something else in mind that maybe I'll try out when I work on the gameplay

Fed1,
for the online mode, it's not possible to have an event on ball impact, everything has to be done at least ~200ms before it.

[Andynator7]

For what its worth I think Manu's adjustable power bar idea is a great one.

When you're actually serving in real life, you don't choose from three options. You think about how hard you want to serve it more generally, choose a place and add spin if you want.

Its much more dynamic than the 3 button system allows. You might add a little to a second serve if you're going for broke, or you might take some off if you're struggling to keep it in.

I do see why people want an element of dexterity though. Like all the other strokes in the game, it would make sense for serving to require good timing as well as good aiming. I can see how that would be complicated for online tho

[KINGBARBOZA]

Other games have implemented timing systems online flawlessly. It would improve serving greatly online, turning it into a system that is mainly dependent on the actual skill of the server rather than luck.

[KINGBARBOZA]

Just wondering if there are any updates on the power gauge/new serving? Thanks

[manutoo]

KINGBARBOZA,
I might give it a try within the next couple of months, as I should start to work on the gameplay soon.

[Oserkos]

To me, having the three mods of serves is good. However, as KINGBARBOZA said earlier, there is a huge "luck" part in the speed, how it is short or long etc. So why just not put a bar for each of the three types? Having some risk in all cases, with like linear or exponential relationship between risk and shot , but still have some power boundaries for each type of serve as we already have.

[KINGBARBOZA]

hey manu, any update on this?

[manutoo]

KINGBARBOZA,
I still didn't get to it. Maybe within a few weeks...