Mana Games

[manutoo]

Hello,

>> Read everything in this post before installing the game ! <<

here the 3nd Beta of TE2011..!

The purpose of this Beta is to test :
- the new World Tour points, calendar, players ; let me know if you notice anything wrong (except bad player name spelling & wrong birthday for players outside Top 10)
- the tiredness in the match ; I guess it still needs a lot of tuning, but if I could get some comment at this point it'll greatly help me out to know in what direction to do these tunings

Note: you can play the World Tour with this Beta, but your saved games might be not compatible with the final TE2011 release.

If you want to keep playing online with regular TE2009 users, you should install TE2011 in a new folder, to keep your current TE2009 folder intact.

If you already bought TE2009 & want to see the 3D courts in TE2011, you can upgrade from here for US$9.95 or EUR7.5 :
- https://www.managames.com/tennis/promo2009_en/ [English]
- https://www.managames.com/tennis/promo2009_fr/ [French]
Anyone buying the full version of TE2009 is now getting a License Key that works with both TE2009 and TE2011.

https://www.managames.com/download.php?TE2011_feb3.exe ~33MB [Patch #3 Included] [Permanent direct download link to the latest version]
http://toogame.free.fr/Files/TennisElbow2011.exe [Patch #3 Included] [Mirror Link]

https://www.managames.com/download.php?TE2011-Patch.exe ~900KB [Patch #3 - Build 56 - Tiredness tuned a bit + Players look ball again + bug fixed when Stamina is different of Speed + Women get tired a bit faster than Men in World Tour + More Tiredness tuning]

[manutoo]

The only 1 person who downloaded the Beta 3 before the time of this message should download it again now (coz I had forgotten to update the link )

[Brad1981]

The tiredness starts way to early. I think it should be more focused on the entire match rather than an individual point. Maybe you could create separate settings: One for tiredness during a point, and one for tiredness for the entire match. And have a slider for each, ranging from Off to 100. But, we need to be able to adjust these with sliders. I don't think tiredness during a point should really start until after about 7-10 shots per player, then player should start getting tired. As it is, it seems to start after my player or CPU player hits 3 shots. But over the course of a match is really when it should be a factor. Have it calculated based on distance run, and a gradual decline in speed as the distance a player runs increases. I don't think tiredness should have too much an effect on shot power, especially during a point. Tiredness should impact foot speed MUCH more. Because even when I'm tired during a long point, if my opponent hits the ball right to me, I can hit with decent pace, but if I have to run, that's when it gets tricky. Because tiredness affects legs much more so than arms.
Glad to see this being implemented!

[PattySchnyder]

Tiredness should effect the players movement not just strokes

[jesp8000]

The tiredness starts way to early. I think it should be more focused on the entire match rather than an individual point. Maybe you could create separate settings: One for tiredness during a point, and one for tiredness for the entire match. And have a slider for each, ranging from Off to 100. But, we need to be able to adjust these with sliders. I don't think tiredness during a point should really start until after about 7-10 shots per player, then player should start getting tired. As it is, it seems to start after my player or CPU player hits 3 shots. But over the course of a match is really when it should be a factor. Have it calculated based on distance run, and a gradual decline in speed as the distance a player runs increases. I don't think tiredness should have too much an effect on shot power, especially during a point. Tiredness should impact foot speed MUCH more. Because even when I'm tired during a long point, if my opponent hits the ball right to me, I can hit with decent pace, but if I have to run, that's when it gets tricky. Because tiredness affects legs much more so than arms.
Glad to see this being implemented!

I agree with Brad1981 regarding the calculation of tiredness. The only thing is that in Simulation Mode, this Tiredness should not be able to change by the player. Meaning, its in the game. Only in Arcade Mode that we should be able to have some sort of slider to change the Tiredness parameter. My point is its Simulation mode and we are supposed to simulate the real thing, thats why theres an Arcade Mode where we can remove or tweak some features that we dont want. Just my view about these things.

[Algo]

2 bugs:
I went to match and the camera would just go crazy coming up and down quickly, it happened only the first time but still, or perhaps as I changed the camera to "still" it fixed it.
At the controls everything was "0", I could move and hit with the default buttons but it was "0" in all of them when I went to change them and now it seems no change has been done, I'm still with the default fire buttons

[manutoo]

To All, Patch #1 released, tuning a tiny bit the Tiredness. Link in 1st post of this topic.

Brad1981, I think you didn't get how Tiredness work right now. I'll explain in detail once more people will have tested. I hope some could get it without the need of a doc...

But about the goal, it's not much about to simulate the tiredness over the match. Most tennis players can go in a 5-setter without being noticeable tired, except on clay. And in real life, most matches are played in 2 or 3 sets anyway.
In game, personally, I play in 1-set. Another example, I think Algo play in best of 3 sets but with only 3 or 4 games per set. Thus, my educated guess is the tiredness over the match is pretty irrelevant for most TE users, most of the time.
What is pertinent though is the tiredness over the few points. This one can touch all TE users, all the time. This is the main goal of the Tiredness system (although, if u play long time, u'll see the Tiredness over the match is simulated as well, but it's secondary ).

About user settings to tune the Tiredness : the system is already way too complex, so this is totally out of the question. Playing around with a 0-100% slider won't give any intuitive result.

[Brecht]

I played three (one-setters) matches and needed two to understand what the new colour bars were made for .

Didn't test it enough to have an idea of the way tiredness affects the players. But I have two remarks:
- I miss the indication about the fps (shall I find it on dev mode?). I'm still not sure about the fluidity of the game with my "small" video card. At first the game was very fluid, but during the last match I played it started to be slower, and I would like to make sure it has to do with either the card or the new feature tiredness.
- About the concept of tiredness: I agree with all those who consider that it should affect legs (speed and inertia?) more than arms. For the latter, stamina works this way already, no? And I think that tiredness throughout the whole match is an important and realistic feature (but you mean it's tuned, so I'll see later for sure ). Don't forget the ladies about the two- or three setters. Three-setters are really tough for girls (unless it's 6-0 0-6 6-1 ...) and affect their form in the next matches. Besides, playing TE, I do (my fingers!) get tired playing long matches (I play World Tour matches in best-of-three with 6 games per set) and need to make breaks , so I think it would be great to be able to resume a match and, while starting it again, feel that both players are more affected than me. Again, it's just a remark, since Manu assumes it's tuned this way and I haven't tested it yet!

One thing I miss since at least beta 2: all players used to following the ball with their heads. It was a bit extreme (in doubles, the player at the net would quickly get a stiff neck looking at the server bouncing the ball ) but now I miss the head movement of the opponents when they get lobbed - especially at doubles. I guess you turned it off because of camera movements, and if it's so then it's fine of course!

[Brad1981]

With the tiredness as it is, I have to turn it off. My player moves reallly really slow after just a couple shots. It's like being stuck in mud. Not really fun at all. And forward/backward movement is slow enough to begin with. Wish there was at least a separate on/off switch for Match tiredness and one for Point tiredness. I think tiredness should just be a SLOW GRADUAL slowing of the power throughtout the match, calculated only on miles/km run. In real life, I get a bit tired by around the 3rd set. That's when I notice that I slow down a bit.

[Fernando_Verdasco_ESP]

ManuTOO when will be released final version TE 2011?

[megadam]

Yea there should be a seperate element for match tiredness. Pretty silly that after a long 5 set match I go into the next one with 100% stamina! Plus i don't think it is fair that I have higher stamina than my opponent yet we both get tired at the same rate?

[manutoo]

Patch #2 available from 1st post of this topic ; changes :
- Players look ball again
- Bug fixed when Stamina is different of Speed
- Women get tired a bit faster than Men in World Tour

Brecht, ooops, Players weren't looking the ball anymore since a while... This is now fixed...

To see the FPS counter :
- go to "Misc Options" menu
- turn on the "Advanced Options"
- the "Show FPS" options should have appeared on top of the menu, so you can turn it on

Brad1981, look like u have a bug ; right now, it should be impossible to "move really really slow" even after an awful lot of strikes & 0% in the Stamina Skill. What are your stamina and speed % ..?

megadam, there won't be match to match tiredness. 3 main reasons for that :
- very delicate to tune so the result will be actually meaningful
- I don't want to double the "bad luck" : if someone gets a few though opponents, and can pass them, I don't want him to lose against an easy enough opponent just coz he got tired in the previous rounds
- I don't want people skip doubles coz they worry they'd get more tiredness from it

And if your stamina is higher than your opponent, and do the same things than him, then you'll get tired less quickly ; but if u do more stuff than him, u still can get tired more quickly than him.

Fernando_Verdasco_ESP, TE2011 will be released when it'll be finished... (hopefully within a few days)

[Brecht]

Ok, just played a three-setter on World Tour (WTA) (2 hours simulated time). With patch 1.
My player is really fit (speed and stamina close to 100%)
The tiredness of the opponent was a clear factor of my player's winning. It seems that it affects more the precision of the shots, the number of available accelerations than the movement itself. I didn't feel that my player was getting slower, neither the opponent. But we both were less precise in our shots. I loved that point. Feet speed wasn't affected as I expected, maybe I'll feel it more with patch 2.

I don't know if changeover brings so much energy back. Anyway, it's a good compromise if the goal is to feel the tiredness over a few points and not to have an empty tank after one set.

And I wonder if tiredness affects the AI's lucidity ... Would be fun!

About match to match tiredness: I get your point, but I'm still dreaming of a more strategical approach of TE. Right now, it's not a big deal if you make your World Tour player enter a tournament every week. He/she'll lose some skills but won't get injured or burnt out. I'm okay with the idea that a long match shouldn't affect a player within a tournament (because it's a game). But what about the next week? Is there a possibility to increase the loss of stamina and speed points if the player choses to enter another tournament after a tiring week?

And thanks for the fps counter, didn't remember it was there (in my own defence, I'll say that TE is getting more and more complexe and it's hard for a cow to find her veals again! )

PS: and thanks for the "camera" button on the match point screen!

[Brad1981]

Tiredness is now MUCH better now that it was realized this was a bug and it's now fixed. A world of difference!

[Fernando_Verdasco_ESP]

Ok,thanks ManuTOO