Mana Games

[Brad1981]

Yay! Thanks Manu.

[maciek78]

This is a very stupid build.Return was mine best strike,now when im staying in the court by return its unpossible to play the ball back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I retire from all online games and very dissapointed that i buy full version!!!!!!

CONGRATULATION MANUTO

[Algo]

This is a very stupid build.Return was mine best strike,now when im staying in the court by return its unpossible to play the ball back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I retire from all online games and very dissapointed that i buy full version!!!!!!

CONGRATULATION MANUTO

don't be stupid(sorry to say in that way but i had to ), staying in the court to return works on real life, with woman...because they hit softer and if they do a kick serve it won't go as high as a men's serve, it was unrealistic what you were doing(and i know that you were staying way too inside the court, we play a lot together...)

[btaylor]

I previously posted in the wrong topic about the latest build (#29) , but I'll post again here to lend my support for Manu...

I, personally, think that the "kick" serve is a SUPREME improvement in the game in that it is so much more realistic (more like the pros) and anything that contributes to the realism is AOk by me!

Like Algo said, it's totally unrealistic to stand TOO far in to return serve, especially with the men...
I have a pretty good kick serve in real life and usually when someone stands ridiculously close in to try to return it, it generally beats them up! They may get lucky here and there, but it usually ain't worth the risk...

Andre Agassi was generally known to be the best returner in the game when he was at his peak, but even HE didn't stand TOO far in, maybe JUST inside the baseline to return relatively weak second serves...

As I've stated many times, Manu works tirelessly to make improvements in the game and we're extremely lucky to have someone in his position who is willing to take our suggestions and POSITIVE critisisms in order to give us a great product!!

As far as critisisms go, I guess it just goes to show that "ya just can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time!"
I haven't played much online, but it seems that unfortunately from what I read in the online posts that gamesmanship, poor sportsmanship and immaturity is somewhat rampant in TE...

[Brad1981]

btaylor, I feel the same enthusiasm with latest update too
I'm real happy to modify cpu speed. And now for the first time, I'm using the short strike softer version.
This should satisfy me for a while lol, but there's always room for little improvements/additional features...
This is best game ever. Well, this, Doom 2, and Flight Simulator hah.

[manutoo]

maciek78, I guess your problem comes mainly from the kicked serve (I think I didn't change anything else that could influence the return), and before the kicked serve was merely bouncing back to the shoulder height, which was way lower than in real life...

Everybody else, thanks for the cheers...

[maciek]

First of all!!
Algo you dont have to explain me what in tennis is normal and what doesnt.
I play sine 20 years tennis and starteg in the ago of 6.I had played ITF tournaments and many Challengers.
When im playing again a player i always staying by the second serv off my oppoenent one meter in the court.By the first serv on the baseline.
And Manuttoo!!!!
I tell you something.If someone makes a kick serve its much easier to return standing in the court.The Kich serv is much slower.In your game is unpossible to make a good return after a kick serv staying in the court.

[manutoo]

maciek, I did a check and actually, the kicked serve was meant to be slower, but right now, it's almost same speed than flat serve, so I'll fix that for next Build, I'll also lower a bit the max topspin, but even after that, you won't be able to return standing within the court, you may be able to return standing on the baseline if you always center your ball, though... (playing with a tall player should help as well)

[btaylor]

Manu,

It seems that for some reason this new build (#29) seems to put more of a strain on my system than other builds, i.e. the fan speeds up very fast and the sprite movements get very jerky...my computer has even shut down on occasion, but ONLY with this build...
I even opened the side of my computer to get better ventilation...

ITF/challenger, huh? I seem to notice that in the ATP main draw, hardly anyone stands far in the court to return kick serves ....Maybe that's one of the reasons that ITF/challengers are at the level they are
Some higher level pros may move forward into the court a BIT just before the server makes contact in order to take the ball before it reaches it's peak, but you don't see much of the serve crowding/intimidation tactics that you see on the women's tour and evidently somewhat in TE...

Manu, I did a serve speed comparison with my old build and the kick serve mph was about the same... I hope you don't slow the kick serve down TOO terribly much, not at least until you get more than one complaint about it

[Algo]

i guess i don't like something with the latest build, i find that it's way too hard to attack now that we have less precision when we change the direction of the ball and, for me, attack is about that, always change the direction of the ball to find the best shot possible to make a winner or lead your opponent to the error. I think this is a too defensive-based build. The kick serve thing is ok, i just think that that was the only thing that should've been changed and not the precision when changing the direction of the ball, or at least not doing a huge change like how it seems you did with it

[btaylor]

OK, here's what I notice when playing against the CPU on Pro level 10 on red clay:

1.) Defender plays more like power baseliner ( appears to hit more accelerations or either more stronger accelerations)
2.) CPU seems to serve way more aces (especially out wide in both ad and deuce courts)
3.) My accelerated (b1+b2) serve out wide to the ad court gets FAR fewer aces...The CPU sems to almost always get a good strike on the return, even when he slices an error wide...
4.) Defender topspin groundstrokes kick up WAY more deeper/higher than before...
5.) Defender tracks down WAY more balls when I hit hard angles out wide...
6.) As I stated before, my computer revs much higher after approximately 1 match and then my player has jerkier movements than with other builds, even though I have adequate ventilation...
Maybe it's my video board acting up...I'm not sure since it's ONLY with build#29...

These matches were played both with build#27 and build#29 with all levels set pretty much the same for comparison...
Manu, I know that you said that you "tuned" the bounce characteristics on all surfaces, I don't know if it has anything to do with the CPU ace count because I'm not getting aced so much with "kick" serves...mainly "flatter" serves...
I don't know just what you had to do to increase the kick on the serve:
a) increase the spin on the ball or
b) slow down the court surfaces to accomodate more kick, or
c) some combination of the two, but that might explain why the CPU is getting to more shots and I hit fewer aces with this build...

If anyone else has noticed this "revving" thing with jerkier movements, please respond..

[CC]

So...how does one hit this aforementioned kick serve? It is not in the Full Documentation; I found some reference to it in the forum saying that it is hit as the "Nadal strike" is hit, but I am not sure how to do that. Is it B1, then B1+up, then B1+down? Please tell me . Thanks!

[Brad1981]

Manu, when I changed the CPU's Speed setting in the character sheet, it resulted in him hitting less hard for some reason. I don't know if it's just me, but this is what it seems. I bumped it up from 0% to 15% (playing at Incredible level sublevel 10) and he seemed to hit softer. I tried changing it back to 0%, but it stuck with him still hitting softer. I'm not sure if modifying this has an inadvertent affect in CPU power or playing at a lower level, but this is something that happened to me. It's nothing dramatic, but it is noticeable to me, and I was just seeing if you could check to see if anything inadvertent is happening.

[manutoo]

@Algo :
I won't change back the new imprecision, but your comment gave me an idea : for next build, for online games, depending of the lag set, I'll raise the preparation time and thus the precision of strikes, so when you play with a high lag, you won't have anymore an handicap on your preparation time and the precision of all strikes will be better, closer of the offline mode (but not identical, coz the auto-pos will still be delayed by the lag).


@btaylor :
I did some little cleaning in the video system, but I don't think it changed anything on the system load. Do you still have the previous build ? Does it seem to run better ?
If you play with DevMode=1, and touch the pad key / & *, then it often creates some timing problem for the player animation...

I did a try on clay, and yup, it's quite harder with the new bounce. I changed it to reflect the court pace from ITF website, before the clay was a bit too fast surface... (higher rebound = slower surface ratio)
For next build, I'll raise the length handicap when using topspin while standing far from the baseline. I did some tries, and I think the result looks more realistic as well as easier to play.

To increase the kick, I just raised the ball spin.


@CC :
Actually, the serve which was giving problem is the top spin serve, not the kicked serve.
The kicked serve speed is already slowed down.

Kick = top spin + side effect.
You do this by pushing up & down during the service preparation phase, the order doesn't matter. The time for each push matter and will change the spin axis & the spin speed.


@Brad1981 :
Raising the CPU speed skill should help him on several other issue (mainly reflexes & returns, and also a bit of positioning), thus it should make him hit less strongly.

>> I tried changing it back to 0%, but it stuck with him still hitting softer
Wouldn't that be related to the cheat code to lower the CPU speed instead ..?

[btaylor]

Hi Manu,

Like I said, the problem I'm having only seems to be with THIS build (#29)...
Also, I'm not playing in "dev 1 mode",
In the tennis.ini "dev=0".
The only things I notice differently in the .ini have to do with the resolution, refresh rates...
Build #27's resolution=1024x738 with refresh rate=75 hz
Build #29's resolution=1024x768 with refresh rate=60z
Obviously, the [Record] parameters are not in build #27.
Other than these differences, I don't really see any others...

One thing I DO notice is that EVERY time, I"m only able to play ONE complete set with no problems...
After that set is over, if I close ALL THE WAY OUT of the game i.e., back to my desktop screen and then click on my TE2009 game icon and load/launch the game, then it plays ok for ONE set...
To play another set with no problems I have to do this each time...

If I don't close completely out of the game and only go back to the "training club" screen and then start another set is when it happens. (my computer/fan "revs" louder and my player's movements get very jerky)
Actually, it SLOWS down my player's movement and If I go back to the training club or match statistics screens and move the little tennis ball cursor around I notice that it tracks slower (kinda like there's some sort of lag)

I've been comparing back & forth between builds #27 and #29... (I didn't download build #28)
Still, when I play build #27 everything is perfect (in terms of player movement)...
Maybe I should try de-installing/re-installing build #29?

p.s. Hopefully when you adjust the clay court topspin groundstroke bounce characteristics it won't affect the kick serve...