Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

General discussions about the 1st version of Tennis Elbow Manager

Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby manutoo » 27 Jul 2012, 07:44

marco,
got you saved games !

1) Fixed

2) My only idea was it could have been related to play also in Singles while your partner were playing online in Doubles, but you played only Doubles, so I have no idea what went wrong. Let me know if you can reproduce the issue.

3) Actually, the qualies points should have been always added to the main draw points ; it's what is done while playing, but on reloading, the recalculation was incorrect (they were instead added to the previous week main draw, if any :sweat: )

4) Couldn't reproduce, but I checked only after have fixed the Partner thing, so maybe it was related... :thinking:

PS: going to upload new version in a few minutes
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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby marco » 28 Jul 2012, 19:41

Hello manutoo,
we're still not bugfree although we are already running short of more serious issues ;-)

3) This is quite a good idea, it seems much better now.
Though while playing the qualification points are added only in the case they cannot be put into the activities because of some other tournament that week.
If there is no conflict the qualification is still separate (that is ok on itself) and the points are not added to the main draw point award.
I'm not speaking about math (it is correctly added together with the main draw points) this issue is only about numbers shown in the activities history and in the week report during play.
Shouldn't it show the full point award all the time regardless of other tournaments activity records ?
I would say yes since it looks like that after reload as you pointed out, it should look like that during play also.

4) The problem mentioned is still there, it should be easy to reproduce.
Just try one of my last savegames I sent you and after reload you will see only 9 tournaments are counted.
After moving to the next week the ratings are recalculated correctly again.
The problem seems to affect all the players on tour, all of them have lower ratings than they should which affects also their rankings.

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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby manutoo » 29 Jul 2012, 06:30

marco,

3) oops, I had forgotten to handle 1 case (like usually :fear: ). Actually, on weeks with only qualies, then the qualies point should be shown only for that week and not added to the main draw ; I add the qualies points to the main draw result only when it's the only solution to show the points ; I'm going to fix this so "reloading" will match "while playing"

4) I tried many times and I always get the correct count of played tournaments
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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby marco » 30 Jul 2012, 03:56

Hello manutoo,

Hmm, regarding (4) I don't understand how is it possible for us to see different behaviour.
I have incorrect ratings each and every time I try it, i.e. most of the players out there, though there are some (approx. first 60+) that have it all correct.
I have even started a new game and after reaching enough (11+) counted tournaments it behaves the same after reload.
Would it help if I send you partial screenshots where you could check if we are really seeing different things ?
I checked the behaviour when loading w51 savegame I sent you last time and going one week further (getting 11th tournament and 70 points).
After simple save and reload I am seeing different ratings/rankings in doubles than before the reload (283 vs 290 points).

I have also noticed a bit strange behaviour regarding doubles race which I will have to investigate more.

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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby manutoo » 30 Jul 2012, 06:21

marco,
oops (again ;) ), I thought you were talking about the "Tourns. Played" number in the Rankings board ; but actually, you are talking about the counted tournament for the ranking points..!
So I found the bug & fixed it... You can re-dl & re-install the game (no version change).

For the little story : it was coz all players were seen as top ranked, because their rank was #0 on load, so they had less results in low tournaments counted.
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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby marco » 31 Jul 2012, 00:18

Hello manutoo,

the doubles entry ranking points are now correct after reload :-)

A) Though there is one small issue I've found accidentally. Don't know what was the intention but older players are usually removed from the game after week 52 (having no activities from w52 onward).
That means I can see them during 52nd week (summarizing status until w51) but if I save and reload these players are removed right away and are not in the rankings during 52nd week anymore. Also their activity history is completely erased (it is not erased during play at all).
I mean here again the different state of the game (or specific week) between "during play" and "after reload" status.

B) I have also tested you solution to problem with adding qual points to the main draw though I have to say I liked it better when they were always added ;-)
That way you could be able to see your full earning (qual+main) in the week report (which would be nice).
And in the activities it would show the full amount in the week where possibly the icon for counted tournament is located.
Because if you qualify the icon is only in the week of the main draw and not when qualification took place (even if these points are actually also counted).

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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby marco » 31 Jul 2012, 01:54

I have also investigated the doubles race behaviour which is very special and quite complex I admit.
It seems the race ranking is assigned only after the player pair makes it into the best 200.
It is OK on itself though I would say it being too small a number.
All the others have "None" or 0 rank, which should be special in all the ranking categories and not mean top player but really no ranking (sort of last player).

In fact I would prefer similar limit for singles race, let's say 500.
And I'm not sure of the ATP rules but WTA states that also entry ranking is assigned only after player has played at least 3 counted tournaments or has earned at least 10 points.
I don't know if that is possible but would surely be nice :-)

Now to the issues:
1) Most obvious is the sparring partner list when playing early tournaments and looking at it in the doubles race perspective.
There are several empty records instead of players and the preselected one has again altogether wrong data.
I would say it should show the same players as normal just with no rank or something like that...
Since they are not selectable anyhow in this view it should just show somewhat more correct data.

2) Counted doubles race tournaments are dependant on the doubles partner.
That means each player may have several ratings (and rankings) and several counted tournament lists.
Only one of these is shown on the activity history but I didn't find out which one.
It seems random though I would expect either the last partner's or the best partner's (probably better option).

3) The counting of tournaments for the ranking purposes is a bit tricky here.
First the WTA champs is again 12th counted tournament when it should count toward 11 total (just like doubles entry and similar to singles entry/race).
Next the mandatory tournaments seem to be designated but not taken into consideration for the race ranking purposes.
I know that this might cause the mandatory tournament to be on several counted tournament lists for a player if she was good enough with more than one partner.
But still that is the correct behaviour and should be possible to achieve since all the counted tournament lists seem to be maintained because of all the race rankings available.

4) Don't quite understand why the doubles race rank in the activity history is always odd number calculated as RANK*2-1.
It doesn't make sense to me to have this kind of ranking since it is present nowhere else and there would be no problem having the same rankings as in the rankings table.
The numbers are only odd anyway so there is no point in it I would say.

5) And there is one minor side effect of "None" or 0 rank after reload of the savegame (again ;-))
If you save and reload the game where the player has no rank in doubles race you can see rank 1 for current week in the activity history which stays there forever.
Thus you can see 1(s) among "None"(s) in the doubles race history showing all the weeks when the game was loaded.

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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby manutoo » 31 Jul 2012, 08:37

A) Good catch ! I fixed it.

B) I think it's ok coz the qualies points are shown just 1 line above.

1) Fixed selected partner info ; for the list itself, I can't see any neat solution, except maybe showing nothing... :thinking:

2) It should show the tournaments counted for the best team ranking obtained

3) Fixed Masters Cup count.
Mandatory tournament should be counted correctly, but depending of the doubles entry ranking (ie: not the team ranking).

4) Before it was TeamRank*2 -1 & -0 for the partner (best overall doubles partner being better ranked in Race), but then I changed it to both partners having TeamRank*2 -1 .
Now, I changed it again to be TeamRank for both partners.

5) Fixed.
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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby marco » 02 Aug 2012, 02:01

Hello manutoo,

Problems (A),(1),(3),(4) look better now, thank you :-)
Though in issue (A) the activity history of retired players is still lost upon reload. Is it intentional ? Shouldn't it be present in the savegame ?
That means if I look at the retired player history it is completely empty :-(

And regarding (1) my idea was to still show the players (along with their best race partners) with the points earned and no rank.
If it is possible at all... :thinking:
But it doesn't matter that much I think there are more pressing issues to be looked at ;-)

And when describing the mandatory part of (3) I was again quite inaccurate.
Mandatory tournaments are correctly counted for the doubles race also.
But only for the team that has attended, not for the other partner pairs of the same player (might be problem if the engine is not ready for this).
And what is most important, in the case the player didn't attend it at all, the mandatory tournament behaves completely like non-mandatory for all this player's teams (doubles race only, entry is correct).
So it is not counted as 0 point tournament even if "Missed" status is present, not even for the best team ranking of the player.
Though in reality it should be mandatory for all the eligible teams of that player, it is player's problem being eligible with more than one doubles partner.
The frequent changes of doubles partners are penalized that way and the top race ranks are kept relevant with active partnerships.
As an example, in w51 savegame I sent you last time, Clijsters should not have w14 and w15 counted for doubles race because of missed US Slam and Beijing, just like in entry ranking.
But I am aware this is probably quite complicated so the full solution might be impossible.

As far as (B) is concerned I just meant it would be in fact more understandable and clear.
I really liked your solution with adding the main and qual points together :-)
I know that activity history shows it quite well but I still vote for the combined amount in the main week :-D
And also the week report is not exact when showing points earned and number of ranks moved since it is not only those main points that caused the move.

(2) OK, here we have the same notion but it seems not the case.
It really is strange but it is not always the best team race ranking.
It is quite well visible in the mentioned w51 savegame I sent you.
Just check e.g. Wozniacki and Vesnina.

And unfortunately (5) seems to be still present, after reload of a savegame there is again rank 1 instead of "None".
Just start a new game, go to the next week, save and reload and nearly every player will have rank 1 in doubles race activity history.

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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby manutoo » 02 Aug 2012, 08:43

A) Activity should be re-created when requested ; maybe it doesn't work on the week of retirement though, only on the following weeks ; I'd need a name & tournament draw where I could find a retired player in your saved game to look more into this.

B) Actually, you got the qualies points on the previous week, not on the main draw week (even if both are counted on the main draw week), and these points have already been show on the previous week summary ; showing both points together is actually just a fix when the previous week summary didn't show the qualies points. I agree that your preference is also quite acceptable, although I slightly prefer mine... ;)

3) Ok, checking Clijsters lead me to the issue : missed tournaments were actually not counted coz no partner on that week..! I fixed the checking flaw and now Clijsters' team is ranked #3 on Week 51..!

2) I found the bug, it was not taking the best partner like intended..! Now, it should be ok, although it'll still be a bit confusing sometimes, coz if a "missed" tournament has actually been played with another partner, there's nothing to show (I don't display the "counted" icon in that case, coz it'd be even more misleading, I think)

5) It was fixed for ranked players, but not for not ranked ones... :sweat: it should be ok for everybody now..!

You can dl the game again (no version change).
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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby anaum91 » 03 Aug 2012, 23:41

what problem was it with the WC i had don´t understand it, i hop someone can answer my question.

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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby marco » 04 Aug 2012, 03:10

anaum91,

if you mean the problem mentioned in the other topic it was about players that got a wild card in a tournament but it was not visible in the draw itself.
So you could see e.g. 400+ ranked player from the tournament country playing without qualifications while last directly accepted player was from top 100.
Clearly the 400+ player got a wild card, there was just no sign of it.

Actually now it is the opposite state as I have described in the topic, now you can see wild card even for the player that doesn't need it.
And since the number of WCs seen is later on much higher than it should be it is clear that these players didn't actually receive a wild card.
The regular WCs are still correctly assigned so that one is OK now.

marco
Last edited by marco on 04 Aug 2012, 03:37, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby marco » 04 Aug 2012, 03:35

manutoo,

I have thoroughly tested the new version and it looks quite well, the solutions are very good overall :-)
Regarding problem (A) I have to correct the information provided.
You are right, the results are there upon reload, one just has to look at it in the previous year view.
i.e. when I go to week 1 next year I can see the history, I just have to select previous year activity history to find it.
So current year activity is empty after reload even if all the weeks are actually from last year and had tournaments attended.
And if the player has retired but you are still in week 52 (doing save and reload) you cannot find the last year history anywhere until one more week has passed at least.

What is probably more important is the way current year activity history looks for such a player when you don't do save and reload after end of year.
The current year history is NOT empty in this case, it just doesn't scroll correctly.
That means as the weeks pass they are added to the view but the tournament results shown do not scroll with weeks and so are shown incorrectly.
You can check w51 savegame and find C.Black or L.Raymond via L.Huber who is still active top ranked player there.
It should be easy to check both issues starting from this one.
I didn't check singles players but would say all this will behave the same.

And unfortunately solution to (5) caused that now no player has doubles race rank in activity history anymore :-(
The "None" rank is there for every player on tour not being able to show the actual number for any past week.

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Re: Comments about Build 29 (v1.0h)

Postby manutoo » 04 Aug 2012, 07:24

A) All should be fixed... :fear:

5) Fixed (again :unsure:) ...

You can dl the game again.
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