For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Archived Results from the Tour 2011

Do you want to play Online Tour Matches with a minimum of 117ms Delay ?

Yes, I want to play with a minimum of 117ms Delay, or higher when needed
46
51%
I prefer to play with 117ms Delay, but I'm ok to play with Auto-Delay
4
4%
I prefer to play with Auto-Delay, but I'm ok to play with 117ms Delay
4
4%
No, I want to play with the Auto-Delay
21
23%
I want to play with a minimum Delay, but not 117ms
4
4%
I don't care, everything is fine for me
7
8%
No idea what you're talking about, but that won't stop me to answer !
5
5%
 
Total votes : 91

Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby manutoo » 31 Jan 2011, 04:45

Hello,

yup, I confirm, this poll was not a democratic vote, only a public consultation... ;)

The final answer can't be only decided by this poll, coz :
1- 117ms Delay is fundamentally bad, as it changes the way to play too much from the offline mode, which is unnecessarily when the ping is low, and this prevent newcomers to have any decent level & fun when playing the Online Tour
2- the 117ms Delay rule has been applied since several months, without my consent coz hidden from me (while some pep invoking it were telling their opponent I was the one enforcing it :sweat: ), so an undetermined number of pep who didn't like to play like this may have already left the game, and thus cannot vote against it in this poll, distorting the result

I didn't do any final conclusion in my previous message, coz I didn't want to force the hand of the Mods on that rule. One of the rare joy of being a Mod is to choose the Tour rules, and I'd rather not remove that to them... :P

On the other hand, my mood about this may change if we get more pep complaining about being forced to play with the 117ms rule. That's why this topic & vote are still open... ;)

About the Delay, there's an explanation in the Doc, I just updated it to make it a bit more clear :
http://www.managames.com/tennis/doc/Ten ... ml#network
The Delay is the latency time that Tennis Elbow adds between the time you actionnate your controller (keyboard, gamepad, etc...) to move your player, and the time this information is actually processed to make your player move. This allows keeping both PCs synchronized. In short, the higer the Delay, the more latency it'll have between the time you give a command and the time your player will react.
To have the game running at a normal speed, the Delay must be at least half of the ping. For example, if you usually have a maximum ping of 100ms with your opponent, then you must set the Delay 50ms or more.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Lucky Loser » 31 Jan 2011, 06:29

manutoo wrote:I confirm, this poll was not a democratic vote, only a public consultation... ;)

The final answer can't be only decided by this poll, coz :
1- 117ms Delay is fundamentally bad, as it changes the way to play too much from the offline mode, which is unnecessarily when the ping is low, and this prevent newcomers to have any decent level & fun when playing the Online Tour

an undetermined number of pep who didn't like to play like this may have already left the game, and thus cannot vote against it in this poll, distorting the result

Exactly!!! :yes: Thanks Manutoo for your quick answers!!! This is more helpful than you think :thumbleft:
Last edited by Lucky Loser on 31 Jan 2011, 06:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Stajus » 31 Jan 2011, 06:30

And the game is unplayable at 50 ms delay :mrgreen: Everyone is missing the ball and the glitching occurs more often too since the ping is say 60 ms with 50 delay...The mods haven't made this rule to make some joke, it's for the practical reasons...And also 117 has to be used with SA/India and also US in many cases if you're from Europe, so 117 is a nice way to even it all out. And I do repeat - low delays are unplayable ;) When I played the World Tour ages ago, I could move...playing such low delays online doesn't allow coherent movement. As an experiment I joined a random guy recently and he set 50 delay, within two games we both missed about 2-3 balls each. This rule isn't RANDOM by any means :yes: And if you'd force this rule out, 90% of high quality TE players would stop playing the game (as can be seen by the voting results) :roll:
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby nikzy » 31 Jan 2011, 06:45

Stajus wrote:And the game is unplayable at 50 ms delay :mrgreen: Everyone is missing the ball and the glitching occurs more often too since the ping is say 60 ms with 50 delay...The mods haven't made this rule to make some joke, it's for the practical reasons...And also 117 has to be used with SA/India and also US in many cases if you're from Europe, so 117 is a nice way to even it all out. And I do repeat - low delays are unplayable ;) When I played the World Tour ages ago, I could move...playing such low delays online doesn't allow coherent movement. As an experiment I joined a random guy recently and he set 50 delay, within two games we both missed about 2-3 balls each. This rule isn't RANDOM by any means :yes: And if you'd force this rule out, 90% of high quality TE players would stop playing the game (as can be seen by the voting results) :roll:


well its true 117 is d best agree with u stan even when i play a guy with 50 ms delay i miss shotsss so i ll go for 117 :wink: :dance: :lol:
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Lucky Loser » 31 Jan 2011, 06:49

Stajus wrote:And the game is unplayable at 50 ms delay :mrgreen: Everyone is missing the ball and the glitching occurs more often too since the ping is say 60 ms with 50 delay...The mods haven't made this rule to make some joke, it's for the practical reasons...And also 117 has to be used with SA/India and also US in many cases if you're from Europe, so 117 is a nice way to even it all out. And I do repeat - low delays are unplayable ;) When I played the World Tour ages ago, I could move...playing such low delays online doesn't allow coherent movement. As an experiment I joined a random guy recently and he set 50 delay, within two games we both missed about 2-3 balls each. This rule isn't RANDOM by any means :yes: And if you'd force this rule out, 90% of high quality TE players would stop playing the game (as can be seen by the voting results) :roll:

I understand Staj, but don't let this look like monopoly of high ranked players, if some player is far away of course we have to set the conditions which will be acceptable for both players, but if there's perfectly playable game let's just leave it to Auto-delay, it kinda logic, at least to me... I remember I played once in online singles tournament and I thought I played cool that time. Than I joined my opponent who said that I must host the game again and set the delay on 117... I asked why, but he said it's just something I have to do... Than i realized that I was totally blown away by him because I literally couldn't move, because my controls suck, and that's when I decided to hold my focus only on doubles. And the guy was kinda used to that conditions and he rocked the court. So if it's up to agreement between two players, let's play like that, leaving Auto-delay as primary solution :thumbleft:
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Florian » 31 Jan 2011, 19:31

If you know that you and your opponent have a great connection, there shouldn't be any rule obliging people to play with 117ms. F.ex i started to practise online a lot with french people, we always have played at 83ms and that was a great connection, no one missed any balls. The feeling was a bit weird when going back to 117ms but still fine.

If the delay permits it, people should play in what fits the best to them, but personnally i wouldn't go under 83ms.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Mr.Schmith » 04 Feb 2011, 15:11

i have wanted to comment this topic for a long time. We should have 117ms, it's a fair connection level and playable. Low ms = easy footwork , which means 117 is more skillful and you actually need practice to play this instead of just everyone losing to new players. Increasing the Ms will make it slidy and lose footwork at all, + people who are used to a certain level of ms will get annoyed, and that's why we have the lag rule.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Lucky Loser » 04 Feb 2011, 21:34

Mr.Schmith wrote:i have wanted to comment this topic for a long time. We should have 117ms, it's a fair connection level and playable. Low ms = easy footwork , which means 117 is more skillful and you actually need practice to play this instead of just everyone losing to new players. Increasing the Ms will make it slidy and lose footwork at all, + people who are used to a certain level of ms will get annoyed, and that's why we have the lag rule.

Well this is kinda subjective opinion, if you know what I mean. Everyone losing to new players? Maybe that's exactly the reason there aren't a lot of newcomers here. In some other topic a lot of high ranked players were asking for some changes so that this game could be "more realistic". Well let me just put it this way - How realistic is when there is absolutely no chance of top seeded player losing in early rounds here. If in reality Rafael Nadal can lose in R16 of Roland Garros to Robin Soderling and Federer to Guillermo Canas in R16 of Miami, well.... so can people in video games... That is reality. I'm just saying. And people who are used to a certain level of ms will get annoyed? Well, I can see 17 players here in votes who would be annoyed, but I also see 11 of them who wouldn't. Personally I don't like playing 117 except there really is a need for that. MODs said - it's a written rule, Manutoo said - It's definitely not a rule. So like I said, and like I was told, it's up to agreement and if there is no agreement about it, let's leave it to Auto-delay. Peace.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Mr.Schmith » 04 Feb 2011, 21:47

i also had this problem last year. These people have been playing this game for 3-4 years, and you're telling them to change their habbits? When a new player can easily adapt to a condition. Besides i personally think lower ms is easier to play / control so people crying about high ms because they suck in general should maybe try to play the real ms like we always used to.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Stajus » 04 Feb 2011, 21:54

Hmm, using "Auto Delay" is hardly a "no agreement" case. It will favour the low ms type players in Europe vs Europe matches - how can that be a default lmfao? e.g. ping 60 ms, Auto Delay = 50, preferred Tour delay = 117 => agreement to use 83 or something is a different thing altogether...Anyways, I've played 50 delay several times and there are tons of problems with it: 1. incoherent movement making me (and several other ppl) miss balls, 2. glitches can occur frequently in such low delays due to minor jumps in ping...It's simple :roll:
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Lucky Loser » 04 Feb 2011, 22:09

Well I already gave up on this, I just had to write... you know... the principles. I already saw we have no choice but to obey you, eternal top 10 (read 117) players :jap: Universal suffrage in it's true glory... :salute: Peace :thumbleft:
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Stajus » 04 Feb 2011, 22:10

18 > 10 :roll:
Last edited by Stajus on 04 Feb 2011, 22:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Igor Josifoski » 04 Feb 2011, 22:15

Stajus wrote:17 > 10 :roll:


Well Guys, I am sick of playing matches with delay under 117, it's really bad because we can't have the same rythm in different delays, that's everything. Stan :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Mr.Schmith » 04 Feb 2011, 22:21

Zorkez wrote:Well I already gave up on this, I just had to write... you know... the principles. I already saw we have no choice but to obey you, eternal top 10 (read 117) players :jap: Universal suffrage in it's true glory... :salute: Peace :thumbleft:

maybe you should start working on the 117 ms delay. But if you can't win it then change it. Besides we all had to get used to 117 at some point.
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Re: For or Against 117ms minimum Delay Rule ?

Postby Maxy » 16 Apr 2011, 13:17

Somethimes when i'm playing ith players that are not from europe i set minnimum delay to 133 or higher...
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