Mana Games

[Julianu93]

Hi Manu!

The game is looking good.However there are a few things that in my opinion diminish a good experience.

First of all,I think the returning of serve is too OP,almost broken.In high levels while playing online players stand too close to the baseline,sometimes inside the baseline,almost inside the court.Why is that?Because counterpunching the serve(especially the second) is too easy,and makes the return of serve more easy to handle than the service games.Thats why we see many broken serves in high levels while playing online.In real life we dont see ATP players returning second serves inside the basiline.The online players do this because they want to get profit from this matter,wich I think is an issue.I think service games and returning should be more balanced.

Another topic is the slice.Before a couple of updates the slice felt good.It wasnt a handicap,and was still attackable at times.But the down the line slice had penetration and speed and accomplished a change of rythim,the same as the cross court slice.But now,the slice is 100% attackable from every position.Especially the down the line slice wich floats very slowly even in the fastest of grass courts.This issue can be seen even in warm ups,where the cpu can hit clean winner from both wings while I attempt to produce a deep slice.This is another topic that I think doesnt happen so much in real life tennis.We dont see very often players hit clean winner of a deep slice.In the game a 2hb player can hit a clean backhand winner from a deep cross court slice.

This is my take of things that I dont like in the game and I think if this topics could be tuned a bit the game will earn in realism a lot.This "issues" prevents the game to be a full simulator,and makes it an arcade in this aspects.Everything else is very well done and the game feels great.

Sorry for the long text
Hope for a reply

Greetings!

[manutoo]

Hello,

1) As the 1st & 2nd serve efficiency issues have been reported in the past, I had talked about that with Mystery & Jijo (the Online Tour Mods and currently the #1 & #2 on the Tour) and they told me it was alright so I didn't change anything, especially as in my tests against the Pro-10 CPU, I didn't detect any big issue.
For the 2nd serve, when playing online, use the topspin or the kick if your opponent stands too close (it works best on slow surfaces).

2) I did a quick try and the Pro-10 CPU couldn't do too good acceleration off the deep slice : 110~120km/h. If you move well, it's not too bad.
The issue, however, might be that it requires a bit too much preparation to do a decent slice. I'll try to tune that for the next update, so only the last instant slices will be really inefficient.

[Julianu93]

Thanks Manu.

Yes,the big issue for me is the down the line slice.I play vs the cpu in Incredible 2-3.Even if I have time to prepare the slice properly it still doesnt have the proper depth and penetration and my opponent can attack that ball even if he is standing cross court before my stroke.And I know to play with slice.I have been playing with Dan Evans almost all year.

I also play carrer mode on xkt and I still find that issue.Maybe its a thing that bothers me personally but watching tennis on TV I dont see so much winners being hit after deep slices and in the game it happens a lot.It happened before all this updates.But now it happens almost 90% of the time.

Of course that I do not intend to hit a winner with a slice.I intend to change rythims and counterpunch if required.And since I cant do that properly I have to change my playing style and it doesnt feel confortable.

Thanks so much for the answer!Hoping for those updates!

[manutoo]

The Incredible level is not very realistic as the CPU gets important bonuses everywhere ; at Inc-2 or 3, there aren't still that big though, but it might be enough to compensate for a good part of the handicap implied by a sliced ball.

Could you send me a Bug Report after a couple of points where a well-prepared slice underperformed ? (HowTo => topic5-31732.php )
Please note down the score of all the points and write them in the report so I could easily check them.

[Mahmut1]

I agree with returning. I think slices are already good enough. Looks like Julianu wants bit too much with slices. Some slices should remain attackable. Otherwise it might be unrealistically good.

[Julianu93]

I agree with returning. I think slices are already good enough. Looks like Julianu wants bit too much with slices. Some slices should remain attackable. Otherwise it might be unrealistically good.

You didnt read properly.I said that before this last updates the slice was still attackable BUT it accomplished a change of rhythm and pace.That is hard to do right now,especially with the down the line slice wich is 100 winner prone by the opponent,because it doesnt have a propper depth and penetration,it just floats waiting for the opponent to hit a winner.

Maybe you dont use the slice so much and play with a 2hb player.So you dont see this issues.

When you play with a 1hbp,the slice is very important to defend and counterpunch.This issue produces that other playing styles,especially with characters with a doble handed backhand have a bit of a handicap over chars with a single handed for the simple reason that a 2hb player can better hit the ball in different heights.

I repeat.I dont intend to hit a winner with the slice.I never did.In real life that almost never happens.Since I play with Evans,I try to have a playing style similar to his.Changing rhythms with the slice.And it is as fair of a playstyle as it is an agressive baseliner with a 2hb.People should employ the gamestyle that suits them better and the game should allow you to do that.

Cheers.

[Mahmut1]

I understand but i don't agree. I wrote this due to i read many times you talked about slices. I wasn't agree back then either Now i just mentioned. Also Evans has 1 star slice talent. If you buff it max talent might be so strong again.

There could be huge difference for max(2) slice talent to 1 slice talent this i might agree. Lastly in xkt i played against an opponent who should have hit to the net or never get to the balls while defending but hit some incredible slices.

[Mahmut1]

Everyone has complains about the games.I also don't like how big topspin handicap is. For me other than defender style with high top spin(more than 50-60) almost not playable due to the how short the depth is.
Even with Bulldog, depth handicap is bit too much specially when running just hitting near to the service box. I first thought additional top spin boost of a styles was not penalizing the depth but it is. So not exactly only a boost.
Also not only top spin shots but normal strikes depth are low with high spin. Idk maybe it's true in real life but players not everytime immediately punish short spinny balls with 140+kmh shot.

I want to ask Manuto why is short acceleration handicap is too big? Since it's slower than normal acceleration why people try to do a short acceleration if handicap is too big like missing everytime if not hit in correct positioned.

[Julianu93]

Mystery » 22 Mar 2023, 19:29

1) Not sure about the backhand slices on latest build. They are completely useless now - like on TE 3. Honestly didn't think the previous version was op at all and majority of the players could deal with it well. Not a fan of the slice effect now as it just got completely killed (both on spin and speed). They are 100% free sitters ready to be pounced.

This is a message from Yale(Mistery) from a couple of months ago.And there where also other complaints from other users.To show that it wasnt only me that complaint.

In todays gameplay,I will have to agree with what Mistery said but especially with the down the line slice.The cross court slice is fine.Not great but fine.

[Julianu93]

The Incredible level is not very realistic as the CPU gets important bonuses everywhere ; at Inc-2 or 3, there aren't still that big though, but it might be enough to compensate for a good part of the handicap implied by a sliced ball.


Could you send me a Bug Report after a couple of points where a well-prepared slice underperformed ? (HowTo => topic5-31732.php )
Please note down the score of all the points and write them in the report so I could easily check them.

Hi Manu.It also happened to me while playing carrer mode on xkt on master 6 level.

Ok.Ill.send you the bug report.Thanks!

[manutoo]

Julianu93,
Mystery wrote this after the 1st big change to the slice and I've done several updates after that.
I'm not sure what is his exact stance on the slice now, but I hope it's better than at that time...

[Julianu93]

Julianu93,
Mystery wrote this after the 1st big change to the slice and I've done several updates after that.
I'm not sure what is his exact stance on the slice now, but I hope it's better than at that time...

Yes,that is why I said that I agreed with Mistery statment at that time regarding the down the line slice.

After the updates I feel that the cross court slice is fine as of right now.Not the same with the down the line wich is almost 100% attackable in my opinion.

[Mahmut1]

2x Slice talent is great even too good in xkt as i played against opponent then also i changed my char to have 2x slice talent instead of one. Like i said i think the gap is really high maybe 1 star slice is not really that good but 2 is so strong almost.

[Julianu93]

Hi Manu.I sent you some bug reports that shows what I mean.Cheers

[manutoo]

Julianu93,
sorry for the delay to get back to you ; my half-holidays, with the help of the heatwave, became nearly full holidays...

I got many Bug Reports from you ; here a few observations :

a) "Evans 2-0 Wawrinks (00-15) Serve STAN" :
- The CPU acceleration is not that fast : 136km/h
- You don't reposition yourself near the center of the court after you hit your slice
- You start to run only a micro-second before the CPU hits its strike
- If you repositioned earlier, you'd have a very good chance to catch that ball

b) "Evans 1-2 Wawrinka.Stan breaks my serve by another winner from attacking a down the line slice"
- Same as a) you reposition yourself way too late, and this time it's worst as you stand in front of the corridor, with the whole court open
- In real tennis (and thus in TE4) as well, this is a very poor strike : you hit the ball down the line from a tad after the corridor ; this automatically opens the court too much for your next opponent's strike ; in such a case, you should absolutely play cross-court

c) "Evans 1-0 Wawrinka (00-15)"
- This slice has been prepared a bit late, but mostly, it was very off-centered, and thus poorly hit and slow, giving a good occasion to attack for your opponent
- Despite that, the CPU short acceleration (at 126km/h) clipped the net, so he wasn't far from doing a fault

From these 3 checks, I conclude there are no major flows with the slice ; I'll still check if it makes sense to boost a bit its efficiency on short (but not super short) preparations.

Quick final tip : if you do a down-the-line strike where the ball goes slightly to the center of the court instead of going really straight or slightly outside, it's usually a poor strike.