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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby SPC » 08 Dec 2013, 22:23

Raz wrote:I dunno why you had to change it, it was much better before

Much bettter for the irrealistc servers and defenders.
topic15-14836.php

It makes absolutely no sense to be running backwards and circles to the ball than moving laterally and zig zag.. No need to talk about the servers having 200mph serves consistently in that is beyond ridiculous. :roll:

Much needed update thanks Manutoo, game play this way will move forward indeed (looking back to August last year form, which for me was probably the best for the game despite i was moaning about the movement back then)...
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby testo » 09 Dec 2013, 00:23

After several online & offline matchs:

gameplay very slightly better but :
- better for baseliner
- worse for volleyer cause of slower move of the player running to the net
i find...

serve more efficient, still low % for 1st serve
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby miharu0607 » 09 Dec 2013, 01:01

Such a shame that the world tour was also affected - and the people who were asking for changes were mostly demo version online players.
Much more outs - even when u're standing in a green area, not to mention that serving right now have become a nightmare. The consistency fell down - I was testing it playing against Marat Safin on Incredible level-5, and he has rather very high stats, but half of the points he would hit before into the court, were out.
Code: Select all
Forehand_Power      =   95
Forehand_Consistency   =   90
Forehand_Precision   =   90
Backhand_Power      =   95
Backhand_Consistency   =   90
Backhand_Precision   =   95
Service_Power      =   95
Service_Consistency   =   80
Service_Precision   =   90
Return         =   75
Lob         =   80
Passing         =   90
Dropshot      =   90
Counter         =   85
ForehandVolley      =   90
BackhandVolley      =   100
Smash         =   95
NetPresence      =   25
Lift         =   0
Speed         =   95
Stamina         =   95
Tonicity      =   85
Reflexes      =   90
Strength      =   100
Concentration      =   40
ColdBlood      =   110
Constancy      =   90
Tactic         =   100
Positioning      =   100
SelfEsteem      =   100
Motivation      =   50
DoubleSpirit      =   90



I've also simulated match between two Janowiczs - i set a 105% for him in serve power, the other two are above 80%, and yes i have set in tennis.ini to use given values.
And the fastest serve was 209kmph... half of the first serves were much below 190kmph.
Manoo, maybe u shouldn't listen that often to people who are playing online, because their advices are affecting the fun we were getting from playing WT, or maybe you should introduce such changes just for online playing, because right now game have become unplayable...
Another simulated match between two players with 100% of top spin, 100% in groundstrokes consistency/precision, both defenders - before the match between such players lasted up to six hours even, with many rallies going into more than 100 hits, right now it finished after 1:20'20, with average rally count - 15, and way too much unforced errors.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby Algo » 09 Dec 2013, 01:59

seb wrote:After several online & offline matchs:

gameplay very slightly better but :
- better for baseliner
- worse for volleyer cause of slower move of the player running to the net
i find...

serve more efficient, still low % for 1st serve

wasn't it raised? (unless it bugged ofc)
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby SPC » 09 Dec 2013, 02:04

miharu0607 wrote:Such a shame that the world tour was also affected - and the people who were asking for changes were mostly demo version online players.
Much more outs - even when u're standing in a green area, not to mention that serving right now have become a nightmare. The consistency fell down - I was testing it playing against Marat Safin on Incredible level-5, and he has rather very high stats, but half of the points he would hit before into the court, were out.
Code: Select all
Forehand_Power      =   95
Forehand_Consistency   =   90
Forehand_Precision   =   90
Backhand_Power      =   95
Backhand_Consistency   =   90
Backhand_Precision   =   95
Service_Power      =   95
Service_Consistency   =   80
Service_Precision   =   90
Return         =   75
Lob         =   80
Passing         =   90
Dropshot      =   90
Counter         =   85
ForehandVolley      =   90
BackhandVolley      =   100
Smash         =   95
NetPresence      =   25
Lift         =   0
Speed         =   95
Stamina         =   95
Tonicity      =   85
Reflexes      =   90
Strength      =   100
Concentration      =   40
ColdBlood      =   110
Constancy      =   90
Tactic         =   100
Positioning      =   100
SelfEsteem      =   100
Motivation      =   50
DoubleSpirit      =   90



I've also simulated match between two Janowiczs - i set a 105% for him in serve power, the other two are above 80%, and yes i have set in tennis.ini to use given values.
And the fastest serve was 209kmph... half of the first serves were much below 190kmph.
Manoo, maybe u shouldn't listen that often to people who are playing online, because their advices are affecting the fun we were getting from playing WT, or maybe you should introduce such changes just for online playing, because right now game have become unplayable...
Another simulated match between two players with 100% of top spin, 100% in groundstrokes consistency/precision, both defenders - before the match between such players lasted up to six hours even, with many rallies going into more than 100 hits, right now it finished after 1:20'20, with average rally count - 15, and way too much unforced errors.

How do you know most people asking for changes were demo version online players :unsure:

Which mode you tested? I must probably think that in fair mode definetly the serves go slower, try realistic mode instead, (although i am not sure that mode could be choosen for world tour mode, i dont really play it).

Yet i dont see how a game becomes unplayable, when in reality it is ridiculous to face a player who serves hard, in, well placed 215+ mph serves consistently, that is not realistic at all and that is what in fact is unplayable, no oportunity to play a point.. :whistle:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby manutoo » 09 Dec 2013, 07:38

Heinrich von Westphalen,
thanks ! ;)

Raz,
any chance you could define "it", so I'd have a chance to know what you're talking about ?

Petr Kroppe,
you should have installed the Patch instead of the Demo to keep your current settings.

Algo,
on the pic you shown, the CPU is partly running to the back, so it was slowed down compared to before. I might tune that a bit though, as right now, the slowing down may still be there even once the player turned to his side.
Note: the CPU reaction time on 1st warmup strike is very slow and not level dependent and it always has been like this, and thus it always has been very easy to hit a winner on the 1st ball.

And yup, forward run to the net has been very slightly raised.

prius,
this update didn't have any anim changes.
When there's anim change, they apply to the whole game, not only WT.

miharu0607,
nothing changed for the CPU serve ; it makes me think you did a CPU vs CPU in Training Club with the "Offline Mode" set to "Fair".
An average rally count of 15 is still much higher than real life, but it's closer than before, so I'm not sure what is your problem with that..?

seb,
I can reproduce the video settings change issue (although it didn't crash on my PC, just exited the game), but neither I nor the debug mode of DirectX have any idea why it's doing that... :sweat:

For the lines, it might be coz of Aspect Ratio not on Auto in Video -> Advanced Settings.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 09 Dec 2013, 13:42

Hi Manuto,

After this patch I have this problem again :(
topic5-14451.php
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby Raz » 09 Dec 2013, 19:47

manutoo wrote:Raz,
any chance you could define "it", so I'd have a chance to know what you're talking about ?

Sorry about that!

Well, for example the ball now bounces way too high when you hit a slice. I think the way the ball used to bounce before was ok.

Also, I dont like the the fact that you increased the speed of the player when moving forward.Im 2800+ elo so I have very fast reactions, so when someone tries to hit a dropshot against me I almost always get to it. But when I try hitting dropshops there are not many players that can get to the ball because they have slower reactions. So now Im a bit frustrated with the update because anyone can get to dropshots without having fast reactions. So how am I rewarded for having faster reactions than them ? Im not.
You should change it back because TE is supposed to be a skill-based game,and it should be that way.

Other than that, everything else seems ok.. :wink:

PS: Manutoo do you ever play TE online ? Id like to show you how everytime you try a dropshot against me, not only will I get to it but I will pass you easily with the new speed. I could show you some other interesting stuff that you can work on as well.. :wink:
Last edited by Raz on 10 Dec 2013, 02:16, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby RogerF » 09 Dec 2013, 20:08

raz you are so right..
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby Elias » 09 Dec 2013, 21:55

In my opinion it's a pretty good update, i agree with SPC, this was much needed, especially the speed conversion adjustments toward this awkward defensive moves in circles, and overall defense potential wich was really overhelming. (How nice it would be though, if we could tweak these distinct speed conversions via modding, or even with simple ingame sliders, among other things ! ;) )

The increased forward RA (run acceleration) and/or speed conversion is a good thing i think, it promotes to play forward a bit more. Now for sure we can't have it all and several gameplay aspects are connected, and this change allows to reach drops more easily. But overall as it helps to balance offensive and defensive play, it's a positive move imo. We tested a bit different setups, and with a 80/66 Speed/RA, along with 70-80 drop stats, i seemed to be ok. Though with 70/70 SP/RA, it felt like we could reach too much drops already. So on our side with ITST mod we may go for higher drop stats if this can help, depending the amount of RA we'll go for. But maybe the drop effectiveness could be improved back a bit in a next update to compensate this, wich may be a better solution whatever TE stat scheme is used.

Good move as well for the serves, that will allow to keep good serve consistencies, without risking to see too much people using b1+b2 or b1 on seconds, or at least it will logically lead to more doubles if so.

The slice changes seems pretty nice as well. Last time defense slices with low preparation time not being that effective trajectory wise is not a bad thing (and with a good wing consistency they're still not crap), and on the other hand, a well prepared slice, triggered when you're inside the court, is really pleasant, pace wise, it brings a better net approach slice. The pace of this slice make it so the opponent won't be able to have too much time to move perfectly and crush it too easily like it was often the case before.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby manutoo » 10 Dec 2013, 05:37

yasinozkan,
ooops, I had forgotten to re-integrate something !
You can now re-dl the patch or the demo, it should be ok... :yes:

Raz,
slice bounce is globally significantly lower (especially with high Topspin skill), except on off-centered ball, which is more interesting, I think... :thinking:

For run forward bonus, I'll raise a bit the efficiency of the dropshot, but I might also tune the forward bonus (and the backward handicap) as I'm not sure I'm satisfied with current results ; I'm thinking about lowering both effects by about 30%.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby SPC » 10 Dec 2013, 06:19

manutoo wrote:yasinozkan,
ooops, I had forgotten to re-integrate something !
You can now re-dl the patch or the demo, it should be ok... :yes:

Raz,
slice bounce is globally significantly lower (especially with high Topspin skill), except on off-centered ball, which is more interesting, I think... :thinking:

For run forward bonus, I'll raise a bit the efficiency of the dropshot, but I might also tune the forward bonus (and the backward handicap) as I'm not sure I'm satisfied with current results ; I'm thinking about lowering both effects by about 30%.

Had more time to test it on the normal game, i may try up for itst and see how it goes.

Overall I liked the update, definetly running backwards and reaching for shots is not as useful anymore :applause:

The dropshot efficiency must be uppered a little, but not as much i would say.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby n 201 » 10 Dec 2013, 08:16

Manutoo, i think running backward at the net is very slow...i miss so many power-smashes...Its really hard for volleyers than before because i see more and more lobs from my opponents....I think net presence should include running backward a little faster.....Yesterday even though i volleyed well my opponent constantly pushed me backward with lobs and running so slow backward i cant even hit smash well and he took advantage of it by hitting almost every shot with lob and then a sudden short cross court to get winner. It's quite annoying to be a volleyer now than before :(
And i am volleyer with 100% net presence, so i can imagine how difficult it would be for volleying with other styles. So please increase backward speed atleast at net. I see and I know my opponent will lob me when i move to net but i cannot move quick enough to hit a perfect smash and that really annoys me :x The last version was good at net although i had enough problems to volley well, but now its like a nightmare to go net and hit a backward smash which makes my net game exposed to my opponent :?
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby testo » 10 Dec 2013, 09:01

as i said, this update is good globaly but better for baseliner than for volleyer
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2013 v1.0b [Windows]

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 10 Dec 2013, 12:06

manutoo wrote:yasinozkan,
ooops, I had forgotten to re-integrate something !
You can now re-dl the patch or the demo, it should be ok... :yes:


Thank You :-)
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