damn moody engine?

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damn moody engine?

Postby The Ivan » 13 Oct 2017, 23:53

Honestly i am about to quit playing that game for good. I cant understand what happens with that engine when you play matches. I mean usually you play and get a feeling after many many matches... You keep playing good and effective for some matches, feeling the service, feeling the groundstrokes etc etc. No matter if you lose or win.. its just ok, cause you did your game. Its just you want to feel your game is the same approx. Just the way other games use to work like. The more you play, the better you get... The more you play, the more control and feeling you get.
But no. This game has its own way to treat you. Suddenly... you start playing bad, really shit... You feel your player sticky and moving slow... not being able to move the way you were used to.. You start to make errors after errors... GREEN ONES!!! without real cause. You start to have bad first serve... No matter how much you concentrate. You try and try... meh! Your groundstrokes start to get weaker... your retourns are about to die halfway.
All this making you not being able to develope your game. makes you feel frustrated. no explanation. This is a game. you should have fun, not destroy your keyboard while desperately trying to get the last pinch of power.. with no success.
Sometimes al this happens just the very next match... just 1 min later!!! Is not YOUR form... cant be that. you cant change that much within 1-2 minutes, no?
You check the stats... all the same. You check the lag ratio.. same.
WTF????? WHY THIS HAPPENS???
Why cant you just transfer your skills and abilities from one match to another?
Why cant you just feel the same way in every match??
Is there an engine procedure that influences your "fitness" just to simulate real conditions??
Idk!
Is there any answer for this??
Thx!
Ivan the Terrible… the Great… the Magnificent… the Courageous… the Magisterial… keeping opponents in fear! Well… that's not me! :D
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby lolo2b » 14 Oct 2017, 08:46

hello, you have well expressed my feeling of the moment for this game. I like this game but it frustrates me because I feel that I am not alone to decide my way of playing. . sometimes the game is slow and your shots that you used to do no longer have the same efficiency.too often scores of 40/0 or 0/40 put together easily, the number of times or the net come save the opponent (pc or on the network) on a break ball ....
I also studied the question and I think that algotithms were created in order to make the game and the matches more tight (game rigged?). but I admit that despite this I have remained hooked to this game and I expect the new version of tennis elbow.
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby manutoo » 14 Oct 2017, 10:30

The Ivan,
did you check the Delay in online matches ? If it changes a lot from one match to another, it could explain your changes of feelings, at least in part, especially if you're not aware of what the Delay does (it's explained here => http://www.managames.com/tennis/doc/Ten ... meCreation )

lolo2b,
game isn't rigged... :)
I guess you notice more the nets on important points than on not important ones, it's a common psychological bias. :fear:
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby lolo2b » 14 Oct 2017, 11:38

ok the word rigged was exaggerated but concerning my idea that the game adapts so that the matches are tighter and the game more attractive? anyway your game pleases me even if it can be frustrating for the reasons I evoke and I look forward to your new version. nothing is perfect in this world.
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby Algo » 14 Oct 2017, 18:53

If this was an online experience, then what manutoo said holds true, you might've played in very different delay conditions.

If you refered to an offline experience I think this was the best compliment you could have ever given to a tennis simulation game developer because pardon my language, tennis is a bitch like that :fear:
You can be on form for days or weeks and then nothing clicks, that's just how this sport goes and somehow manutoo was able to simulate that, if you are talking about offline gaming.

Edit: Well, what I said is true but I read the post through now and you did talk about lag so it was online.
Delay conditions differed and that's why you experienced very different games.
My experience is that 200ms delay is the absolute max you can go for if you want to keep the game as intact and nice as you possibly can. And that's with no packet losses or lag peaks.
Tour Mod.

Tour issues by PM or Skype.
If you don't add me nor send me a PM, you might see your chances reduced. Inform me about anything that might have went on with your matches BEFORE deadlines, otherwise, decisions won't be changed.
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby manutoo » 15 Oct 2017, 11:13

lolo2b,
no, there's nothing trying to make the match more tight.
And I agree, nothing is perfect, especially with a tennis game where there's always something that could be better... :)
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby The Ivan » 22 Oct 2017, 11:10

First of all thx a lot to you guys for your responses! I wasn’t able to post an answer earlier, sorry for that.

@lolo2b
yes, I forgot to mention that i like / love this great game too! And that’s why such issues keep frustrating me! I don’t want to quit playing it. But I was pretty sure about my assumption concerning an algorithm that causes that change in player’s skills, since there are so many parameters like fitness and speed of player, consistency, precision and power of shots etc. that could easily be influenced by the engine. :thinking:

@manutoo
well, as I wrote, this is exactly what I actually did, checking the delay / lag ratio. I think I am aware of the function of delay setting and the effect on keys reaction etc. The parameters were the same every time. Yesterday for instance I played that “penetrator“ guy with ELO 990. My service was lame (barely caught the 200 kmh, while in other matches first serves successfully done with the acceleration button usually have 210-230 kmh), my shots were lame, no angle etc. We played 3 sets, he totally crushed me. I felt heavy and powerless during the matches. After that I played „zimny“ ELO 2300 and i won 6-3. My service was solid and fast. It was a totally different feeling during the whole match. Honestly, idk how to explain this effect.
After all I guess I will go on playing - lol :mrgreen: – because TE2013 is a really great great tennis simulation (!) and it is so addictive! :D

@algo
yes I’m referring to online matches. And as I wrote the delay conditions were the same exactly. There must be something else existing that influences the gameplay (and which i am not aware of). Just to avoid frustration I always try to keep the parameters the same – as much as possible. But again: fun predominates and I am so grateful for this game! No matter if on- or offline experience: still all kudos to manutoo for creating the greatest tennis simulation game ever (imho)! :yes:
Ivan the Terrible… the Great… the Magnificent… the Courageous… the Magisterial… keeping opponents in fear! Well… that's not me! :D
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby manutoo » 23 Oct 2017, 07:18

The Ivan,
what you described really looks like you usually play in Realistic Mode and then you joined a Fair Mode game => http://www.managames.com/tennis/doc/Ten ... SkillModes .
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby The Ivan » 24 Oct 2017, 21:03

No manutoo, I never play realistic or fair mode - 99,99% of my matches are free mode. "Free" is my absolute favorite mode.
Today for example, most of the matches I played were fast like lightning! :? :?:
The shots and services were fast and explosive, the rallies were fast (just the way I like), and both players were running like rabbits.
I checked the delay / lag parameters, they were the same like ever (no lag ratio).
I really cannot explain what causes those changes in gameplay! :cry:

But i dont want to annoy you with this topic any more. It seems there is no explanation for that phenomenon.
It is what it is. Let's say, TE2013 got its own "soul".. lol :blackeye: :bounce:
Ivan the Terrible… the Great… the Magnificent… the Courageous… the Magisterial… keeping opponents in fear! Well… that's not me! :D
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby manutoo » 25 Oct 2017, 07:17

The Ivan,
I just checked and you did play at least a couple of matches in Fair Mode this month ; I guess you joined some people games without checking their Skill Mode... :)
IIRC, you can check the Skill Mode on bottom right of the Match Stats screen (F4 Key).
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby The Ivan » 26 Oct 2017, 03:20

No manutoo, those matches you are mentioning were just a few (5-6??) during the last weeks; I am not referring to them, but to the free mode matches that count at least 150-160 in October (Ok, they may be not 99,99%... but still are 95-98% of all matches I guess). The phenomenon I am describing occurs in free mode, which is supposed to be the “fast mode” and that’s why the “sticky gameplay” drives me mad every time it occurs! :annoyed:
And yes, I checked the match mode along with the controls, the delay and the lag ratio - using the F4 key - just to be sure that all settings and parameters are the same and correct. And since i host most of the matches - or almost all -, i have control on the delay setting etc. myself.
There must be some other parameters that influence the game play (imho). :thinking:
But i guess my quest ends here... :(
Ivan the Terrible… the Great… the Magnificent… the Courageous… the Magisterial… keeping opponents in fear! Well… that's not me! :D
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Re: damn moody engine?

Postby manutoo » 26 Oct 2017, 07:56

The Ivan,
then, I'm afraid it might stay a mystery... :fear:
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