Does the Quit Penalty need some changes ?

Everything about your online tennis matches !

Does the Quit Penalty need some changes ?

Yes, ELO penalty and give up count should be done as soon as the match started
1
8%
Only the give up count should be done as soon as the match started
1
8%
Only the ELO penalty should be done as soon as the match started
0
No votes
No change is needed
4
31%
We need even harder rules !
3
23%
Give the penalties only after the 1st game has been played
4
31%
 
Total votes : 13

Does the Quit Penalty need some changes ?

Postby manutoo » 24 Nov 2007, 07:35

Hello,

right now, the ELO Penalty (3% of the ELO score) and the give up counting is only done when someone gives up after 2 games have been played.

Should it change ? Should the penalties be possible as soon as the match has started ?

Vote and/or give your thoughts here..! :)
Last edited by manutoo on 26 Nov 2007, 05:01, edited 1 time in total.
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15808
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Postby A-Rad » 25 Nov 2007, 18:27

I think it would be reasonable when both were counted after the 1st game. It happens quite often that the lag is so awful both players decide not to continue the match but you could make it in the first game. And now for example if I break somebody and he retires - I get no Elos and gets no penalty.
So I say: quitting possible only in the first game :)
A-Rad
crazy of the little yellow ball
crazy of the little yellow ball
 
Messages: 188
Gaming Since: 07 Oct 2007, 12:27

Postby Brad1981 » 25 Nov 2007, 19:41

I think it's ok the way it is. 1 full game should be able to be played before someone decides to quit.
Brad1981
crazy of the little yellow ball
crazy of the little yellow ball
 
Messages: 402
Gaming Since: 01 May 2006, 16:45
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Postby guest » 30 Nov 2007, 02:25

I think 1 full game from each side is enough time to decide whether you want to continue. When lag is really bad its just not fun to play. You can then ask the person if they want to try again. I just finished playing someone who by the score of 2-2........didnt like the fact that I hit a lob when they came to the net. They cursed and ranted via chat........then quit. This is getting very frustrating.
guest
Guest
 

HUGE CHANGES NEEDED!!!

Postby tommys » 27 Jun 2008, 18:43

Simple: the penalty (both ELO and count) should be WEIGHTED. The more games played in the set, the higher the penalty. Why? Because this means that both players have already invested more time and effort into the set (or sets, in the case of multiple sets), and why should the "good" player not get more reward if they are leading 5-0 and the sixth game is 30-0 and the "bad" player quits at that point.

Sure, the bad player get the 3% penalty of ELO, but it would be more fair and more just if they get a weighted penalty per game played. For example, if they quit after the first game they get 1%, after the second 2%, after the third 3%, after the the fourth 4%, after the fifth, 5%, after the sixth, 6% and in the case of a quit in the middle of a tie break ... 10%!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Seriously, Manutoo and everyone else, doesn't this sound like a good plan??

please let me know, (btw, the numbers can be changed around, but the idea of an incremental, weighted penalty is the ONLY fair and just solution to problems of punishments and rewards - this last of course is only based on the philosophical and jurisprudential ruminations of a near madman!!!)
tommys
Guest
 

ELO & Give Up Penalty ... What about REWARDS??

Postby tommys » 27 Jun 2008, 18:52

Simple: Giving a penalty (whether ELO hit or give up count, it does not really matter) is not enough. We need to encourage good behavior - the only and best way to do that is that the "good" player (the one who does not quit) should get a reward for not quitting.

So, while the offending "bad" player gets "punished" with the penalty, the "good" player could get a reward which could be 1/3 or even 1/2 of the penalty points that were "awarded" to him/her.

So, example: offending player gets -30 ELO points for quitting. Good player also get +10 points for NOT quitting (1/3 of the bad player's penalty points) or he/she gets 15 points (1/2 of the penalty points awarded to the offending player)

Again, the numbers are only for illustration - it's the idea that is important because it will ENCOURAGE good behavior - if I can GAIN by being good, then I now have an incentive to be good.

Using only punishment never works as well as also using rewards.

Let me know what you think,

tommys
tommys
Guest
 

Postby Togtdaylttai » 27 Jun 2008, 19:32

Tommys, I really like your idea. It makes good sense, as it's really annoying when you're playing someone about as good as you, they retire, and then you don't get any ELO.
Record (since coming back from ban): 24-6
#19 (Too bad I got myself banned, otherwise I'd be #11, even without the tournaments I missed)
Winner: Banja Luka, Vienna
F: Paris
SF: Newport, Bucharest, Beijing, Tokyo, Basel
QF: Wimbledon, Indianapolis
User avatar
Togtdaylttai
crazy of the little yellow ball
crazy of the little yellow ball
 
Messages: 342
Gaming Since: 14 May 2008, 02:29
Location: Washington State, USA

Punishment + Reward is the way to go!!

Postby tommys » 27 Jun 2008, 20:50

Togtdaylttai, thanks for backing me up on this one and I think that rewarding a good player for not quitting is the only fair way to go.

Manutoo and other dedicated players of this wonderful game, please let us know what you think,

For my part, although I have almost 1000 games logged under my belt, I have *almost* never quit a game, and those 2 or 3 times that I have, it has been under extreme duress!!

I know this may sound silly, but as you pointed out, it is really frustrating for dedicated players like myself to have to always play a game half-way, only to be rudely interrupted by those who can't handle losing, even if this means doing the cowardly thing and quit.

I still play with my keyboard, and I have improved vastly over the months, and now I can hold my own - it took a lot of playing, a lot of online games, but now I can reap the rewards of playing well and having tons of fun.

Wanting to increase one's ELO without putting in the time and effort boggles my mind: why cheat?

Sorry, for the long sermon!! My two cents,

tommys
tommys
Guest
 

Postby manutoo » 28 Jun 2008, 07:27

Hello,

2 things :
- the ELO is meant to represent your strength, not your fairness
- if you give ELO points to the one staying, it'll even give more motivation to the stupid people who are insulting you, going away without quitting game, in hope to make you quit 1st

So no, it wouldn't be a good idea to do that... ;)
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15808
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Postby oohzuzana » 03 Sep 2008, 06:33

I think there should be an option to offer a draw at any point in the match, in the case of sudden lag after the first two games.
#9
Champion!: Beijing, Metz, Madrid
SF: US Open, Shanghai
QF: Olympics, Stuttgart, Bucharest, Banja Luka, Vienna, Basel, Paris
27-8 (Not including WOs)
User avatar
oohzuzana
crazy of the little yellow ball
crazy of the little yellow ball
 
Messages: 215
Gaming Since: 02 Feb 2008, 09:37
Location: USA

Postby Togtdaylttai » 23 Sep 2008, 03:07

Zuzana and I just had this problem when we were playing. I agree with what he said there, but if it's not possible, then is there some way to restore our elo if both players agree that one wrongly lost elo?
Record (since coming back from ban): 24-6
#19 (Too bad I got myself banned, otherwise I'd be #11, even without the tournaments I missed)
Winner: Banja Luka, Vienna
F: Paris
SF: Newport, Bucharest, Beijing, Tokyo, Basel
QF: Wimbledon, Indianapolis
User avatar
Togtdaylttai
crazy of the little yellow ball
crazy of the little yellow ball
 
Messages: 342
Gaming Since: 14 May 2008, 02:29
Location: Washington State, USA


Return to Online Tennis Games

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 0 guests