Mana Games

[manutoo]

Hello,

here the 2nd preview of TE2008 ; it features the 3D players, and most of the 3D anims, including the service & the smash, as well as the 16:10 display (widescreen) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4WtpJX5Mrw
(be sure to click on "watch in high quality", to lower a bit the over-blurriness of Youtube )

I'd like to have a lot of comments about the animations.
I think I fixed most terrible things, but I guess they are still some wrong stuff.
I'm thinking about creating a 2nd set of anims, but only a little while after the 1st initial release of the game (for September, if we're lucky ), so now, I need 2 types of comments :
a) the shocking things that should really be corrected for this set of anims before the final version release
b) improvements for the 2nd set of anims that I will do later

And to finish this post, a little contest : the one who will guess what player inspired me to do the service & smash anims will win all my sympathy !

[Tom Paulman]

Well I think the player should be turning around when trying to return a lob, but only on some occassions. In real tennis, they basically turn around only when they can't reach for the ball to do a smash (the lob is too high). So I guess that players should turn around only when opponents do an aggressive lob? I don't really know, this might be hard to do, make the computer do the right decision wheter to turn around or not...

The player in the front reminds me of Nieminen a bit

[S.Williamz]

Well that's easy, Federer!

[S.Williamz]

My thoughts about the 3D animation:

First of all, I want to say I think you have done a great job so far. It looks mostly great. But, there are certain minor things that I believe make the animation look somewhat unnatural.

I think the players should have a lot better "anticipation" of the ball...like it should be longer first of all. Now the ball is almost at them when they take the rackets back...also the players run at full speed to the ball and then suddenly freeze and then hit...they should slow down their movement a bit more gradually, and take the racket back early. In real life this action is usually graceful looking, in this animation it looks a bit hasty and the timing looks unnatural to me. I think clearer animation for the position taking would make a big difference.

What makes it look unnatural is that the ball leaves the racket like a bullet, even though it shouldn't. I think if a player moved and took position like in this animation in real life it would result in rather poor shots. It's really about the "potential energy". It seems as if the players aren't generating much of it to release to the ball for it to be such a bullet, it seems they get the strength from some miraculous source, not from their body. lol

Now the players look somewhat lazy, and they just run to the ball without slowing down to take proper position, it's almost like they don't take position at all, they don't bend their knees enough, they take the racket back way too late, and the racket swing and shoulder turn are a tad bit slow, in real life they are very fast, you can't even see the racket during the swing, nor you can see the shoulders turn.

I do think you achieved all of this pretty well in TE 2006 animation, so if you could do the same or even better with 3D that would be so awesome. lol

[S.Williamz]

Also one big thing to improve would be the animation of the players footwork...their legs look like they don't move at all most of the time...the forward run is the only thing that looks great at the moment in my opinion.
Most of the time it seems the players fly in the air without moving their legs...that's very bad. The feet should look like they are doing work all the time, moving like crazy...I think this "illusion" was achieved pretty well in 2006 TE. The split step animation looks pretty good in 2006 TE, and it does too in this new animation, but I think it should be faster. Now it seems the players move their legs 2 times and they have moved from the left side of the court to the right side and other way around. lol Also I don't think it should be too fast, because then it would look like the players can split step their way to balls that are far away from them...that is why I think somekind of sideways run animation should be added, like first few split steps animations and if the players have to move a big distance it would switch to a sideways run animation... could it be possible?
Also when players get ready to hit the ball, they should take multiple little steps to adjust correctly, not stop moving altogether!

But it's probably hard to animate all of it...but I do think it would make it look a ton better if there was a lot more visible movement in the players legs...if nothing else, you could go the 2006 TE route and have the forward run animation, and other leg movement animation would be really fast split steps...lol but if possible, you could add the sideways run animation and little adjustment steps while taking position animation...

[Algo]

footwork and forehand i think its a bit unreal the move on the forehand

[lucho]

Hi Manu!
Hadn't been here for some time and it was really great to find this info about TE2008.

I thinks it's looking really great. I'd just try to improve on player movement, when they are moving sideways it looks like they are just flying accross the court.

Great job! And the serve reminded me of Sampras, don't really know why.

[btaylor]

Manutoo, the 3D anims seem to be coming along great! I agree with the suggestions posted, however I would like to offer a couple more. On the one-handed backhand stroke the player should hit from a more closed stance, i.e. turn more SIDEWAYS to the net during the execution of the shot. It's more normal for a two-handed backhand to be hit from a more open stance, facing more TOWARDS the net during the shot. Federer, Gasquet and Henin are great examples to study for the one-hander, to add a tad more realism to the shot production. In TE2006 the anims seem to more aggressively swing at the ball on both forehand and backhand. Especially the forehand. On the forehand the follow-through in TE2006 had more of a wrap-around, windshield-wiper type finish typical of the modern topspin forehand. In TE2008 the strokes seem more like tennis in the 1960's! I did see where you shortened the swing on the volleys, good job! For all you do keep up the good work, can hardly wait for the finished product!!

[Togtdaylttai]

Looks good on the animations, Manu. My guess for the player that inspired you is Radek Stepanek.

[ahmedcoolio]

hi
ya i think the footwork has to be improved it looks like they r moving with skates on and the backhand swing has to be made a bit more natural i guess and more fluid coz its a bit stiff
The serve reminds me more of federer becoz of the toss of the ball or cu dbe roddick but most probably fed i guess ....confused lol

[Marcelo Melo]

the footwork and the forehand are bit unreal but it will be a great game!!!

i think its nieminem and sampras

[TTennisfan]

Well i get more suggestion from others!

your position is very important to be able to play a good shot and this game has a lot of potential like here:
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ16T68OQ ... re=related

More unforced errors plz

[TTennisfan]

Hey Manu,
je crois que ca va etre pr la prochaine version de TE 2006 mais je crois qu'il serait bien d'avoir des matchs doubles online avec 4 joueurs! Comme ça on pourra facilement jouer vs des pays adversaires par exemple:

Argentine (2 joueurs) vs états-unis (2 joueurs)
J'ésPère que ca viendra d'ici peu,
Pr l'instant pour moi juste à améliorer le placement des joueurs sur leurs coups!
Merci!

[btaylor]

HI manutoo, Just wondering what your thoughts are about the suggestions that were posted from all the TE fans/players about TE 2008. I hope you found many of them helpful! :)

[manutoo]

Hello all,

thanks for all the comments.
So here my comments of your comments...

1st, TE2008 has a budget of 3'000 Euros ( + my time), where AAA tennis games like Top Spin & Virtua Tennis have at least 6'000'000 Euros budgets, so it's sure the quality of display of TE2008 won't match these games.

But I already tuned the side steps, and I think it's almost ok now.

My goal for the 1st release of TE2008 is to have an animation system similar to the one of TE2006, which means the players will "fly" over the ground when beginning their strikes, but later, I'll try to to decouple to legs anim from the body top anim, so if it works, it'll look better...

I also clearly understand the lack of power from the current anims, so this set is like the anims of the 2nd player of TE2006 (the one which isn't in the demo). So I'll keep it like this, and when I'll create the 2nd set, I'll make it more powerful.
I may add some footwork on the current set, though, if I find the time.

And yup, the serve is Federer's one, I spent almost 1 whole day to recreate it, so I'm glad 2 of you could guess it well !