tourcategory

General discussions about the 1st version of Tennis Elbow Manager

Re: tourcategory

Postby marco » 26 Jul 2012, 18:58

manutoo,
I'll try to explain a bit more in detail.

1) I mean the draw screen, bottom right corner.
If explicit value is used for QualifDraw, the correct size is only shown when going through "Tournaments of the week" option (and also when draw appears automatically during the week).
If you access it later through "All tournament draws" screen and select the tournament in question it works only when -1 or -2 values are used.
You can easily see this if you set Sydney and Hobart to 30 main draw size and set Category07 QualifDraw to 32 instead of -1.
Just check the draws during the tournaments and several weeks later and you'll see the difference.

2) not exactly, the first week example only shows it obviously, it is not possible to cycle at all since there are no older draws than those of the last week.
But all the time the current week tournaments are shown and selectable through "All tournament draws" screen but it is not possible to cycle through them.
If you try next tournament arrow the week changes to the one before and you cannot return to the last week qualifying draws unless you exit the draw screen and select another tournament directly.
It seems the current week tournaments are not included in the list when using next/prev arrows.
I think it should be possible to cycle through the current week tournaments qualifying and the main draw should say there is no draw yet just like when you select such tournament.
In fact I think it would be better to show the empty draw with message than to omit the draw completely even in the case the tournament has no such draw at all, e.g. no qualifications.
Similarly to the case when tournament has no doubles draw, it is always shown though empty.

3) again not exactly as I see it. I'll give some examples and observed behaviour to clarify.
-1 value says the qual draw size is the same as the main draw, rounded up with regard to number of Q rounds (it works this way for a long time)
-2 value says the qual draw is half the size of the main draw, rounded up with regard to number of Q rounds minus 1 (should also be Q, not Q-1)
Ex.1: 32,30,28,26 main draw sizes with -1 QualifDraw and 3 Q rounds all result in 32Q, multiple of 8 (2^3) CORRECT
Ex.2: 64,62,60,58 main draw sizes with -1 QualifDraw and 3 Q rounds all result in 64Q, multiple of 8 (2^3) CORRECT
Ex.3: 60,58 main draw sizes with -1 QualifDraw and 2 Q rounds both result in 60Q, multiple of 4 (2^2) CORRECT
Ex.4: 64,62,60,58 main draw sizes with -2 QualifDraw and 3 Q rounds all result in 32Q, divided by 2, mul of 4 and 8 (2^2 and 2^3) ONLY RESULT CORRECT
Ex.5: 64,62 main draw sizes with -2 QualifDraw and 2 Q rounds both result in 32Q, divided by 2, mul of 2 and 4 (2^1 and 2^2) ONLY RESULT CORRECT
BUT
Ex.6: 56,54,52,50 main draw sizes with -2 QualifDraw and 3 Q rounds all result in 28Q, div by 2, mul of 4 (2^2) INCORRECT, should be multiple of 8 (2^3)
Ex.7: 60,58 main draw sizes with -2 QualifDraw and 2 Q rounds both result in 30Q, div by 2, mul of 2 (2^1) INCORRECT, should be multiple of 4 (2^2)

All these are examples of the actual behaviour of the game engine at present so it rounds up the values for sure.
-2 value should have the same calculation formula as -1 value except the additional division by 2 in the beginning of it.
Now it seems not the case, maybe the division is done after the rounding up instead of before, that would have the same incorrect behaviour.

3a) still applies for -2 value, the qualifiers are ignored, there is no one with [LD] flag and wildcards are sometimes given to foreigners.

marco
marco
court stakhanovite
court stakhanovite
 
Messages: 43
Gaming Since: 16 Jul 2012, 10:29

Re: tourcategory

Postby manutoo » 27 Jul 2012, 07:41

marco,
1) ok, found the problem & fixed it

2) ok, I think I got it this time, so I added 1 week in the cycle ;)

3) oops, of course I did that and had forgotten... :P And yup, the draw division was misplaced, thus the problem ; it should be ok with next update ; this should likely fix 3a) as well (coz the draw size was wrong)
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15787
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: tourcategory

Postby marco » 28 Jul 2012, 19:23

manutoo,
I will have to try to be more clear and precise ;-) I know I'm just too confusing sometimes :-/

ok, looks like these problems are solved with the exception of (3a)
I should have said that this problem is not connected to the bad Q draw and thus remains after your corrections.
That is, if you use in any tournament -2 value for qualifications, the qualifiers are completely ignored and no player in the main draw has [LD] flag.
Looks like all the main slots are assigned and there is no room reserved for the qualifiers so they cannot make it in.
Just try any tournament with -2 QualifDraw set and check the draws, it is pretty much obvious.

All else in the draws works perfectly :-)

marco
marco
court stakhanovite
court stakhanovite
 
Messages: 43
Gaming Since: 16 Jul 2012, 10:29

Re: tourcategory

Postby manutoo » 29 Jul 2012, 06:56

marco,
no, you were clear, but I assumed too fast it was related... ;)
It is now fixed, you can re-download the game (no version change).
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15787
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: tourcategory

Postby marco » 30 Jul 2012, 23:27

:-) ok manutoo, this one works well now.
But as usual, I have noticed another strange thing.

1) It appears that on many main tour tournaments (especially big ones) there are quite a few players of 800-900+ ranking allowed into the main draw directly.
These players are from various countries independent of the tournament country.

2) Also there are usually several players that should not make it directly into the draw but would be eligible for a WC (these are from the tournament country).
However they do not have a [WC] flag and they might even be too many to receive it because of the WC slots limit for the tournament.

All these players are ranked behind the [LD] player but don't have [WC] and still were not forced to qualifications or were not denied entry.
Problem (1) appeared only in my modified tournament INI files but problem (2) happens also in the standard setup with default INI settings.
I have tried this with just a new game started and going forward several months doing nothing.
Afterwards I checked the draws with this observation.

marco
marco
court stakhanovite
court stakhanovite
 
Messages: 43
Gaming Since: 16 Jul 2012, 10:29

Re: tourcategory

Postby manutoo » 31 Jul 2012, 05:53

marco,
when there are not enough players to fill all the draws naturally, then some are forced to play while they didn't want to play at 1st, thus the ranks mismatches. Normally, they should be shown with Wildcards, though... Although, LD stuff is usually calculated with rankings of the previous week, not the current week.
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15787
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: tourcategory

Postby marco » 01 Aug 2012, 23:21

Yes, I know about this situation but this is clearly not the case.

Problem (1) happened in my modified setup but it has the same number of players and tournaments with mostly equal or smaller qualifications.
In addition, those 900+ players (exclusively with 0 points, not a single one with some points) were allowed into main draw when there were plenty of better players (100+) forced into qualifications (they were right after [LD]) and even more also better players (200-300+) were denied entry at all.
I wouldn't argue that much if those 900+ ranked players were in the qualifications but this is clearly not correct violating entry rules.
I think there might be some issue (possibly connected to explicit qual draw size) that falsely accepts the 0 point players as direct main draw eligible.
If you want I can send you the INI files and it should be visible in some of the first big tournaments, AUS Open for sure.
I will also try to isolate the problem more precisely, maybe that would make it easier for you to find the root cause.
Though I think it will be enough to try the setup with AUS Open and Indian Wells with different QualifDraw than -1, let's say 96 and -2.

Problem (2) is more about the [WC] flag, the player's entry might be very well OK but they should also have wildcard assigned because now it is quite misleading.
So their selection for wildcard might be correct but somehow they miss the [WC] while other similarly ranked players are correctly marked with [WC].
I also noticed that [LD] and entry in general is based on previous week rankings but here we are speaking about 100 or bigger rank difference between [LD] and the non-marked wildcard players in question.
This one happens in the default setup and should be visible during several weeks in the beginning, mostly on tournaments with higher number of wildcards.
Btw. wildcards are correctly assigned in the qualifications, this issue is only in main draw.
I remember noticing relatively small number of wildcards in previous versions and this might be the reason, they were there but not marked by [WC].
So the problem possibly lasts for several versions already.

marco
marco
court stakhanovite
court stakhanovite
 
Messages: 43
Gaming Since: 16 Jul 2012, 10:29

Re: tourcategory

Postby manutoo » 02 Aug 2012, 08:44

marco,

1) Fixed ; the Number of Qualified players was calculated using the old draw size (ie: 128 rounded from 96) and thus the number of direct places available was under estimated, leaded to empty spots needing to be filled (I also fixed the missing WC flag when such players were forced into the draw)

2) Fixed ; the Wildcard flag was actually cleared most of times
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15787
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: tourcategory

Postby marco » 04 Aug 2012, 02:48

Thanks manutoo,

it seems to be working much better (especially problem (1) seems resolved) but wild cards are now in the opposite state, they are too many ;-)
All the players that should have been awarded wild card are there correctly marked.
But now wild card marks seem to spread over time to the players not really needing it anymore (maybe they needed [WC] in some tournament and its assignment lasts also for later tournaments even if the player is already much better and doesn't need it).
i.e. generally in the main draw there are only players that actually should be there anyway just some have [WC] flag that should not need it because they were directly accepted because of ranking.
Typically you can see some players with 50-70+ rank having [WC] while [LD] is 100+.
One of those being seen more frequently in these tests is Sarah Benad (AUS) who usually advances quite deep into the top 100 during 2010.

It is obvious only later when more tournaments have passed already.
I have tried again just a simple new game going only forward and by the time of US Open there were 17 wild cards.
Regular 8 wild cards for Slam were present but 9 more players that were good enough to make it directly were also marked by [WC].
Actually not a big issue but I fear that after several years there might be nearly everyone with a wild card flag ;-)

marco
marco
court stakhanovite
court stakhanovite
 
Messages: 43
Gaming Since: 16 Jul 2012, 10:29

Re: tourcategory

Postby manutoo » 04 Aug 2012, 07:24

pffff... No idea how it could have worked in the past (I actually now wonder if it ever had), coz I found some deep flaw in the code logic... :sweat:
I cleaned all that, and hopefully, it'll be really ok this time..! ;)
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15787
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: tourcategory

Postby anaum91 » 30 May 2013, 23:18

Hey manutoo what is the diffence between TypeRank and ForcedRank in the tourcategory. I have looked in howtomod and you have only decribed ForcedRank and not TypeRank in the link?

anaum91 :D
anaum91
crazy of the little yellow ball
crazy of the little yellow ball
 
Messages: 198
Gaming Since: 17 Apr 2012, 14:20

Re: tourcategory

Postby manutoo » 31 May 2013, 04:48

ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15787
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Previous

Return to Tennis Elbow Manager 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 0 guests