editing tournaments

General discussions about the 1st version of Tennis Elbow Manager

editing tournaments

Postby Curtis » 06 Jun 2008, 05:06

I am having some difficulty with this. in one of the threads about female players, back when you were just adding them to TEM, someone posted this:

Changes to tournament draws:

- in Tier I/II tournaments (draw 56), the qualifying field are 32 players (with 16 seeds). 8 players will be qualified to MD.

- in Indian Wells/Miami (draw 96), the qualifying field are 48 players (with 24 seeds). 12 players will be qualified to MD.

- in Grand Slams, they provide different fields.

A. Australian Open : 96 players/24 seeds/12 qualifies.
B. French Open : 96 players/24 seeds/12 qualifies.
C. Wimbledon : 96 players/24 seeds/12 qualifies.
D. US Open : 128 players/32 seeds/16 qualifies.

- according to the 2006 calendar, these 32 draw tournaments have 16 draw qualifying (with 4 players qualify). They are Bali, Kolkata, Guangzhou and Tashkent.

- in 25000 Challengers and lower (satellite), in qualifying draw (no matter how many players enter) there will be 8 players qualified to Main Draw.
***
Your response to that was that you were working on other projects and felt that getting the draw right was not worth the time it would take, but that the changes could be incorporated 'almost easily' by your customers. I have tried this, and it is not easy for me at all. Here are some of the questions that came up, some of them having nothing to do with qualfying draws:

1) In the Tournament Category WTA.ini, tournament type 15 is the Masters Cup. You have the rating points listed as 450/200/0/100. Shouldn't that be 450/200/100/0?

2) You have categories for 64 draw Futures, and for 64 and 32 draw Satellite tournaments. None of these appear on the schedule in the game (at least not for the WTA, which is all I have played).
A) Could the existing Futures tournaments be changed to 64 draw?
B) What is a Satellite tournament? They seem to have a higher prize than Futures, but earn the same number of ranking points.
C) If I was to create some Satellite tournaments, what sort of things should I keep in mind? (Such as where would they be held? How many per week? Are they held in conjunction with higher level tournaments? At certain times of year?)

3) For many of the categories the entry points do not seem to match the number of rounds. As examples,for the three tournament types listed in question 2 above there seems to be a round missing, unless the losers in the finals earn the same number of pints as the winners.

4) Likewise, you have categories 10 & 12 (for 48 and 64 draw Tier III), categories 6 & 8 (for 48 and 64 draw Tier II), and categories 4 & 5 (for 32, 48 and 64 draw TierI). None of these tournaments exist in the WTA schedule provided with the game!

I just started up 1.0c for the first time and ran through the year.
Tier IV tournaments are almost exclusively 32 draw, with one 16 draw for which there is no category in the WTA category.ini.
Tier III tournaments are mostly 32 draw, with a few 28, 30 and 56 draws (none of the latter three being in the .ini).
Tier II tournaments are almost all 28 draw with one 56 draw, neither size appearing in the .ini.
Tier I tournaments are 96 draw, 56 draw and 28 draw, the last two of those not appearing in the .ini.

5) At this point I am very confused, and I am just getting around to the qualifying draws. The post I quoted at the top of this post refers to the number of players who should appear in a qualfying tournament, the number of seeds and implies the number of rounds in the qualifier (mostly two, except three in the Grand Slams and an unknown number in the $25,000 and under tournaments). I was able to find draw numbers for the main tournaments in the .ini, but could not figure out how to do them for the qualifying tournaments.

Could you please help straighten this out so can enter those changes?
***
This really deserves a seperate post, but since I am typing, I might as well continue.

When I just started up 1.0c for the first time, when I exited it, it asked me to buy the full game. This switching to a new build is not as simple as it appears. I have had problems every time I have downloaded a new build for this game (three times now). Aside from overwriting the changes I make to some of the Data files, this most recent one has erased my registration key. I thought that it was suggested to keep the registration in the game folder, but I must have been mistaken.

6) What do I need to do to unlock this version of the game, and how do I avoid losing my key the next time I update? :roll:
Curtis
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Postby manutoo » 06 Jun 2008, 18:13

Hello Curtis,

1) 0 means 0 point for reaching the semi-finals, and 100 means 100 points for each round robin match won

2) It's normal to have some unused categories
a) yes, but you'll have to restart a game, and it might not have enough players to fill the draw
b) Satellites are very special event, composed in 3 tournaments in a row, with a ranking over the 3 tournaments to give bonus points to the best players ; I didn't implement it, coz they are very few in a year, and they would have been played only in the 6 first months, and the special set of rules would have confused many people, I guess
c) You can do like you want, but right now, if u add tournaments, you should remove some, coz almost all weeks are maxed out

3) if there's less point entries, it means the missing rounds earn 0 point

4) Yes, but it makes it more easy to add this kind of tournament if we want to

5) a 28-draw is a 32-draw with 4 byes, a 56-draw is 64-draw with 8 byes, etc...

Qualif draw size is specified in the category, by QualifDraw & QualifDrawDouble ; if set to -1, it means the Qualif draw size will have the same size than the Final draw.

6) I'm sure you have carefully saved the email with your license key, so you'll just have to download it again to install it again... ;)
ManuTOO
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Postby Curtis » 09 Jun 2008, 07:25

All right, Manutoo, let us how well I understand this. :)

1) So only the top four finishers in the round robin make it into the elimination rounds of the Masters.

2) I have tried reading the "How To Mod".html
a) If I increase the number of players from the default up to the 5000 you mention in the .html, will that likely solve the problem of not enough players? And how can I tell whether there are enough players?
b) Since I was confused by the Masters rules, you are probably right that I would be confused by the Satellite rules. But, since you did include the categories, perhaps you could add those tournaments in the next major version? I read what you wrote about increasing the number of tournaments from 350 to 500 and players from 3500 to 5000 increasing the size of the saved games, but they seem quite small now. If my ancien machine can handle them, most likely anyone could. :lol:
c) I guess I will not add any, though I may try to change some.

3) So in some tournament categories it may be that no points are earned until a player earns a victory in the third round (appears in the fourth round)?

4) Categories for the future. All right.

5) Now the trouble begins. 8-)
a) How would I specify that a tournament has byes and how many?
b) So, -1 means the same number in the qualifying draw as in the final draw. What number do I use to make the qualifying draw half the size of the main draw?
c) If I have a tournament with 56 players in the main draw, and I use the number you gave me in 5b) above, will that give me 28 players in the qualifying draw, or 32? If 28, how would I change it to 32?
d) If I wanted to have 96 players in the French Open qualifying draw, would I specify -1 (to put size of the draw in the range of 65-128)? To then show that I wanted 12 to qualify to the main draw, would I then specify 24 seeds, or is there some other way?
e) How do I show that I want the qualifying tournament to go two rounds instead of the usual three? (Or was that answered in 5d) above?)
f) If I wish to change a Futures tournament from 32 draw to 64 draw, is it as simple as changing the category number, or would many of the lines of description need to be changed?

6) I downloaded the TemKey again, and I have that and the key.txt both in my TEM folder. I tried starting and closing the game again without doing anything in it, and it did not ask me to pay when I quit, so I assume everything is good. Does this mean I will need to download them again every time I upgrade to a new build?

Thank you for your patience. Some people were simply not meant to operate computers. :roll:
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Postby manutoo » 11 Jun 2008, 13:48

Hello Curtis,

1) yes

2) a) it's quite hard to add players to the base, and regarding how hard it is for you to edit the tournaments, I'm afraid it's better for you to not try to do it, at least for now... ;)
But right now, there're 999 players per year, so if you want to add players in a steady way, u have to be sure to add a constant numbers per year, by setting the correct RankPerYear & FirstYear.

b) read my explanation in the previous message...

3) Yes, in future tournaments it's like this... You can see the points per round in-game, when looking at the draws

5) a) Tournaments can have only these numbers of leaves : 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128. (ie: only powers of 2)
Each leaf being a player or a bye, once you have specified the number of players, you'll know the number of byes.
Exemple : a draw of 28 players requires 32 leaves, thus, it'll have 4 byes.

b) c) you can't directly; you have to specify either a draw size, or an automatic same size.
With next update, you'll have the possibility to put it to -2 to get half the size of the main draw. But this number will be always set to the nearest power of 2 size; eg: for a 56 draw, with a -1 qualif, u'll get a qualif size of 64.

If you want a specific size for ur qualif, u can create an additional category, and set the fixed size for the qualif draw (ie: replace "-1" by ur wanted size)

f) only 2 things : change the category, and add the prize moneys for the additional rounds

6) Yes. You could also manually copy your "Key.txt" file from your previous installation to your new one.
ManuTOO
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Postby Curtis » 11 Jun 2008, 21:42

I think I am nearing the end of this thread. There are only a couple of points still unclear.

2) I am still hoping you will implement the Satellites in TEM 2.0, but will understand if you do not.

2b) Your original reply was:
"b) Satellites are very special events, composed in 3 tournaments in a row, with a ranking over the 3 tournaments to give bonus points to the best players. I didn't implement it, coz they are very few in a year, and they would have been played only in the 6 first months.
c) If you add tournaments, you should remove some, coz almost all weeks are maxed out."

According to the Tour.WTA.ini there is room for 24 additional tournaments with qualifiers and still be under the 500 tournament limit, which would seem to translate to either twelve or eight Satellites (depending upon whether you qualify once for the three tournament group or individually for each tournament). Since there are very few in a year, is the problem that weeks are maxed out, rather than bumping up against the 500 tournament limit?

2d) Reading the Tournament Categories.ini, I see that the 'best player' value for for the Satellites is 500, while it is 400 for the Futures. Doesn't this indicate that Satellites are for the worst players, not the best?

2e) What is the purpose of the line 'TypeRank'?

5) I finally saw that each tournament category has a line for how many rounds in its QT, so that would be a simple change.

5b) I guess I will wait for the next update :lol:

5g) It must be possible to create a tournament (such as a 64 draw Futures) that would not have a qualifying tournament. What changes would I make to the existing 64 draw Futures tournament category to eliminate the qualifying tournament? Doing this should free some slots for adding new tournaments. It should also prevent the problem of running out of players, since it only uses four more players than a 32 draw with QT. I do realize that it might create new problems, though. Would it be more difficult to qualify for a 64 draw tournament than for the QT of a 32 draw tournament?

And a couple of new questions:

7) What is the effect of changing the default player from one-handed to double-handed forehand (or backhand)? I usually make Emily doublehanded on both, but I have not noticed anything changing as a result. (I thought it might increase the power potential.)

8) I guess I will suggest that for 1.0d you add a section on tournament categories to the documentation — not how to modify them, but for gamers like me who know little about tennis to understand them. Things that would be good to know include:
In the schedule, what do the different colors mean? (For example, Tier I tournaments come in two different colors — green and the same color as Tier II. Why? And why do Tier II have a different color from Tier III/IV?)
If you know enough to look in the Tour Categories.ini you can find out roughly what ranking the top seed will have in a Futures or Challenger (or Satellite :wink: ), but it would be good to have an indication of what would normally be the lowest direct entry and the lowest to enter a QT for each category, as both singles and doubles. (Am I correct that in Tier IV and above the number one player is always a possibility for top seed?)
Along the same line, it would be good to know how to quickly rank tournaments for difficulty within a category. It was easy to learn that the tournaments with 15% less prize money attract a lower grade of player, but it feels as though there are gradations within the same prize money. If there are three $10,000 Futures listed for one week, does the one toward the top of the page attract better players? In a Futures series, would later tournaments in the series (for example, Italy 6 vs. Italy 3) attract better players?

9) How are doubles teams ranked? At first I thought it was by adding the doubles rankings of the two players on the team, but that does not seem to always be followed. Could my problem be something you said before about the lowest direct qualifier not always having the worst ranking among the direct qualifiers because her ranking might change after the draw is set?

It occurs to me that you could get much more done in a day if I stopped posting. :oops:
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Postby Curtis » 11 Jun 2008, 21:46

(*sigh* And one more.)

10) I have a pretty good idea now what is needed to earn my players a wild card, but how does the game engine decide which computer players earn WC? And how does it know how many WC to give out per tournament? Is there a line in the .ini for that, or is it always four?
Curtis
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...

Postby manutoo » 16 Jun 2008, 10:10

Hello,

I like your ending bigger than your starting... ;)

2bc) The weeks are maxed out for the number of available players.
There's no problem with the total tournament limit, as you just have to change it to 1000 instead of 500 to be alright, but quickly, you'll be out of available players to fill the draws...

2d) Satellites are lower than Futures, yes... I guess they are tournaments intended to send semi-pro players into the real pro ITF tour ( = Futures & Challengers), and later the ATP tour.

2e) TypeRank = the rank of the tournament, the different ranks are :
- Grand Slam
- Davis Cup
- Master Cup
- Master Series
- Int'l
- etc...
It used mainly for display information within the game. (for example, to know what color to display in back on the tournament slot in the planning)

5g) In the category, simply change the QualifDraw to this :
QualifDraw = 0

A 64 draw will require 64 players during 1 week, and 32 F + 32 Q draws will require 32 players on the 1st week , and 32 on the 2nd week...
So if you have 1 tournament every week, the number of needed players will be same, in both cases ( = 64 needed every week).

7) double handed lower the power and topspin potentials (it's easier to do acceleration with one hand coz the swing is bigger); but it allows to get a better anti-power bonus (ie: use the power of your opponent), and it raises the counter efficiency, so it's good for players with counter style.

8) The Tier I tournament with a different green is a mandatory tournament.
Colors are just there to help to see the different tournament categories & look quicker at the one you want.

The lowest direct entries depends of many parameters, so it's your work as a coach to learn what they are ! ;)

>> Am I correct that in Tier IV and above the
>> number one player is always a possibility for top seed

u're correct.

The higher the tournament is in the planning, the better it is, it seems quite logical as categories are very clearly ordered like this... :roll:

Italy 6 & 3 are totally same... The number is only there to know the event number in the year.

9) team entry rank = (rank player 1 + rank player 2) / 2
And yup, the ranks used are the ones of the previous week, when the draw is made.

10) it just gives wildcard to a few players from the tournament country that didn't make it to the final draw...
ManuTOO
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Postby Curtis » 17 Jun 2008, 18:10

And now everything is clear. Thank you for your patience. End of topic. :oops:
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Postby PattySchnyder » 26 Oct 2008, 14:53

manutoo is it possible for quali Wildcard?

and also there should be WC's in Challenger and lower tournaments
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Postby manutoo » 26 Oct 2008, 15:11

I don't think I'll add WC for Qualies, at least for now.

And WC are already present in all tournament types, for the Human players.
And if you want, u can add them for the CPU by adding this line in the TourCategory.ini , for categories which still don't have it :
NbWildcard = 4
ManuTOO
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Postby PattySchnyder » 26 Oct 2008, 16:13

Hello manu thanks for responding to my question

also is there any way I can edit a file to make it point by point? from PAK file
PattySchnyder
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Postby PattySchnyder » 26 Oct 2008, 16:19

in gamesys.ini I see

[WT_ScoreSimu]
StressMinDiff = 1000
StressLowering = 1.0 // difference *= StressLowering
StressPow = 5 // difference *= Pow(random[0, 1], StressPow)
//===> Higher Skill -= difference
FormLowering = 0.4 // ratio = FormLowering
FormPow = 6 // ratio *= Pow(random[0, 1], FormPow)
//===> Skill *= 1 - ratio

can I change anything to make scoring diff?

what can I change to make scoring diff?
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