confusion during the week after acquiring a new player

General discussions about the 1st version of Tennis Elbow Manager

confusion during the week after acquiring a new player

Postby Curtis » 27 May 2008, 01:55

Hello Manutoo,

I have started a full (not demo) game on the most difficult level. I signed additional players in weeks 1, 6 and 11 of the first year. At the times that I signed players 6 and 11 they were already in the process of playing tournaments.

Player 6 had just lost in the first round of a singles qualifier for the Tier III Bangalore tournament to be played in week 7. I received a notice that due to her excellant play she had received an exemption into the Tier II Paris singles tournament the following week. There are some problems with this.

Aside from my disbelief (expressed in another thread) that anyone who goes out in the first round of a tournament would be offered an exemption into another tournament due to good play, here we have the case of someone who was not good enough to get into a Tier III (or even come close) being allowed into a Tier II on the basis of the same quality of play that didn't allow her to qualify for the lower prestige tournament.

Second, the Paris tournament was not held the next week; it was held the same week as the Bangalore qualifier, so by the time I received the exemption it was already too late to use it.

Finally, player 6 was not even offered a plane to Paris. Her only options were to remain in Bangalore or go to the training center (which she did).

Player 11 (Mary Pierce) had something slightly different happen when she signed with me. She was playing in the high Challenger Sunrise tournament, and she lost in the first round in singles (did not play doubles). Again, she received an exemption due to good play into the Tier I Miami tournament the following week, and again there were some problems.

This time the Miami tournament really was the following week, so I assumed she would get to play (regardless of her being totally unqualified to do so. If you lose in the first round of a high Challenger, you have no business appearing in a Tier I). However, when the week ended she was only offered the choice of staying where she was or going to the training center. Going to Miami was never an option.

In both cases things turned out the way they 'should have', with the players not participating in the tournaments that they really should never have been in to begin with, but going through these notices and expectations of participating is confusing and a little aggravating. If you could do something to stop these notices from being sent in cases where the player could not play, I would appreciate it.

{Since I am on the topic of these exemption notices, I will take this opportunity to repeat my plea for the exemption system to be made more rational. Nearly every week I have one or more players who receives an exemption for the next week's singles tournament after winning one round in a doubles tournament — even though they didn't qualify or went out in the first round in singles. Since most of my doubles matches are won based on the play of my partners, this seems like a 'cheat', especially since I must make it to the finals or actually win doubles to earn a doubles exemption! It would seem that either the situation should be reversed (having to make the finals in doubles to earn a singles exemption), or that doubles play should have no bearing on singles exemptions.}
Curtis
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Postby manutoo » 27 May 2008, 06:59

Hello Curtis,

I guess you could have written a shorten message instead of this novel, but at least I clearly understood the situation ! ;)
I think I found the bug, I had forgotten to correctly set a value when recruiting a player...

About the Wildcard, it was coz I forgot to handle the case of different competitions ! Now, I fixed that, and you can't a wildcard anymore for playing in the other type of competition..!
ManuTOO
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some confusion about doubles partners (and other things)

Postby Curtis » 27 May 2008, 11:18

I will try not to write a novel this time. :wink:

I do not understand the double racket in the upper left corner of each players' screen. If you click on it, it says that you have made that player your favorite doubles partner. Your actual doubles partner does not change, however, so I do not know what the effect is supposed to be. I thought that maybe I could go to the schedule screen and change the partner to the new favorite, but that was not allowed due to tournaments being scheduled too soon. I tried forfeiting my entrance fees for those tournaments, but even though I was no longer entered, the program thought I was. (I am guessing that the schedule change did not register until the week changed, by which time another tournament was now too soon.)

a) What is clicking on that double racket supposed to do?

A few other oddities have shown up. Two of them have to do with the little shields that light up during a match to show how many advantages you or your opponent have.

b) My Emily is lefthanded. She always receives the lefthanded bonus when she plays singles, but when playing doubles, sometimes she gets the bonus and sometimes she doesn't. This happened in some of the demo games, also.

c) The other advantage thing is odder. Twice recently I have seen the advantages change during a match. The time I was watching it closely one of my players went from four single and one double advantage to no single and two double advantages just as the third set started. The other time I do not know what the exact change was, but it happened to my opponent.

d) The last thing I have noticed is that any time you check the screen of a computer player, the head-to-head record listed is always her record against Emily. Since I am usually using this feature to select a sparring partner, it would be more useful if it gave the record against my player whose screen I was most recently on. (By which I mean that if I am selecting a sparring partner for Mary Pierce, and got there by clicking on Mary's screen, the head-to-head record should be against Mary, not Emily.)

There, no novel, just a series of short stories. :oops: Thank you for finding the player recruiting bug so quickly. I expect it will probably be another month before you post an updated version?
Curtis
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Postby manutoo » 27 May 2008, 14:15

Hello Curtis,

a) I just added this to the doc :
http://www.managames.com/tennismanager/ ... itepartner

b) The Left-Handed bonus appears only if the best player is Left-Handed

c) It's normal; skill performances change depending of the energy level, so do the bonuses

d) you can click on "Head to Head" to scroll amongst all your coached players

I'm spending almost the whole week on TEM, to update it to 1.0c version; so if you see any bugs or have small feature requests, it's the good week to tell me about them ! ;)
ManuTOO
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Postby Curtis » 27 May 2008, 21:27

a) Wonderful! This actually is a perfectly good workaround for one of the features I was going to request.

b, c) Good to know. Thank you.

d) I will have to try this soon.

Right now I seem to have found another seeding bug. Olivia and her partner Marijana (a computer player) are playing in a doubles qualifying tournament. If they win in the first round and the team on the line just above them also wins, in the second round they will have to face… Linda and Marijana. :shock:

I am assuming that something will happen to prevent this, as it did when doubles teams made up of two of my players appeared on two lines, but it seems you still have a bug allowing the same player to appear twice in one tournament (at least in doubles), and now we know that it doesn't only happen to players who are under contract.
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Postby Curtis » 27 May 2008, 22:12

Curtis wrote:d) This works fine.

Right now I seem to have found another seeding bug.…


This bug just got odder. Olivia's partner SHOULD NOT BE Marijana. Her selected partner is Virag. When I click on the Marijana on the line above mine, it sends me to Marijana's screen. When I click on the Marijana who is on the line with Olivia, it sends me to Emily Bouvier's page. Emily is not entered in this tournament, and is in fact resting comfortably back at the training center. :?:

I simply have no idea what is going on. After I play that round I will update again.
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Postby Curtis » 27 May 2008, 22:44

It didn't play the round. As near as I can tell, Olivia forfeited. When it gave the summary at the start of the next week, it left a dash for highest round reached — as if she never appeared at the tournament. This really is not satisfactory. :( (And she was not able to play in the full tournament the following week.)

On the subject of feature requests, I have noticed that when you attempt to select a sparring partner the selection usually defaults to whoever your next singles opponent will be. I had thought that it always did if your next opponent was one of the possibilities, but just now it did not. Often I can not tell what criteria the program is using to determine default sparring partner.

My suggestion is that IF your next singles opponent is one of the possible sparring partners, that opponent will be the default selection.
If your next singles opponent is NOT one of the possible sparring partners, then the default selection should be left blank. An exception to that could be made if there is only one possible sparring partner.

As the situation now stands, I have to back out of that screen and check who her next opponent will be, to see if she is one of the possiblities. It would save time (and my poor, old mouse) if I knew that no default being given meant that I was free to cycle through the possiblities and select someone close to her abilities without worrying whether she is likely to beat her next opponent.

It would be nice if the default sparring partner was the one closest to your player's abilities, but I doubt the program is sophisticated enough to determine that.
Curtis
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Postby manutoo » 28 May 2008, 06:30

[odd bug]
yup, it's a odd bug, and very hard to find & fix it... :?

[Sparring Partner List]
Actually, the game was just selecting the 1st player in the list, nothing else... ;)
And it shouldn't have your next opponent in the list, it was a bug, and I just fixed it.
And I also just added the auto-selection to the partner with the closest strength of your player. (yes, TEM is a very sophisticated program :P )
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Postby Curtis » 28 May 2008, 09:06

Now I'm finding bugs and not even realizing it! :lol:

And you've already added the 'ideal' part of the feature request. I think I can't keep up with you.

I am going away for a couple of days, so this will be my last set of requests before 1.0c is finished (they are all connected, but could be implemented one at a time):

a) Injuries. You have explained how the system determines when a player is injured and for how long. I have noticed that injuries are assigned by weeks (1 week, 2 weeks, 6 weeks), but are counted down by days. Rather than ask again to make injuries less common, what if you made the shorter ones (those with a 2 week or less maximum duration) a random number of days instead.

For example, an injury with a 1-2 week duration would become 1-14 days. Players would still be knocked out of tournaments as often, but would miss the following week's tournament less often. And these week-long bouts of intestinal flu seem a little excessive. :wink:

b) Since you do count the injuries down by days, it would be helpful if a player did not have to miss a tournament when they would be healthy again by the time they played.

As an example from my current game, one of my players received a 1 week injury during a first round singles match. I knew that this would prevent them from playing in the following week's singles tournament, but she really needed to earn some doubles points, and she would be healed before doubles play began. So, instead of flying her home, I left her at the tournament site (accumulating expenses for herself and the coach), only to have her barred from the next week's doubles tournament due to her nearly-expired injury. Of course, this works well with suggestion a) above, but could be used seperately.

c) This may already be in the game, but it has not yet happened to me. As you know, players may train at reduced efficiency while they are injured. Depending upon the type of training, healing can be delayed. I think it would be reasonable if training while injured also had a normal chance of causing an additional injury.

As a real-life example, people who compensate for injured knees sometimes hurt their hip or ankle (or the other knee). The chance of additional injury would depend upon the length of the injury bar, and could be reduced by the skill of a physiotherapist, just as it was for the original injury. (I do a lot of training with injured players, and it feels like a 'cheat' to me.)

d) The last one might have to wait until the release of the 2.0 version. Right now many things that happen in the game in effect do not happen when they happen, but when the next week changes. Some things (choosing a new favorite doubles partner) happen immediately. I request that updates to the schedule happen immediately.

As an example, my player who was not allowed to play in the doubles tournament in request b) above attempted to change her doubles partner. It was not allowed on the basis that she was in a tournament that week. Since she was NOT in that week's tournament (although she really wanted to be), I felt that insult had been added to her injury.
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Postby manutoo » 28 May 2008, 15:48

a) I just added shorten-than-a-week injuries ;)

b) done

c) it should be possible to get injured again ; as there's a malus to the training efficiency, I think it's really not cheating to train while injured

d) do u have any other example(s) ?
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Postby Curtis » 30 May 2008, 06:41

d) The example that comes most quickly to mind is one I included in a post in another thread, and it also concerns trying to change partners. Check the last two posts in 'Documentation (and other questions)'. In that case the issue was not being able to change partners after a player had made an early exit from a tournament. It might be that all of my issues with this involve changing doubles partners. Anyway, this is something that could certainly wait until 2.0 (or forever, if I could wrap my mind around this whole doubles partner thing :roll: ).

Here are some other ideas for additions and changes, and they could also wait for 2.0. Almost certainly some of them would have to.

e) This might be a bug, or it might be a feature I do not fully understand. During game setup I have the option of changing Emily's birthdate. I set it to December 10, thinking that it would take her a few extra months before adding a year, but instead she aged almost immediately. I had thought that week 52 coresponded to roughly December 25-31, but either it does not, or December 10 does not mean what I think it does.

Either way, if the option to change birthdays is going to be there, any date should be selectable. Right now you can choose any month, but only the 1st through the 10th of each month. After cycling the numbers up to 10 they start over again at 1 instead of advancing to 11.

f) At the forum for the other sports management game I play (Out of the Park Baseball) the posters often write about how to make the game more 'immersive'. (i will assume you understand that term.) Some of the people there write stories about their teams.

A simple thing that would make TEM more immersive would be to keep track of the date. Using 'Week 7' to keep track of time works perfectly well. It is simple, easy to use in calculation and easy to translate into other languages. If in parentheses after Week 7 it said (February 20-26), this would now give us a little more grounding in the real world.

If you chose to do this, you could use real calendars OR you could use an arbitrary repeating calendar. If you choose the latter (which is basically what you are doing now with the numbered weeks), My advice would be to ignore Leap Years (years when February has 29 days), and to start each year on January 2. January 1 will be the day when end-of-year events take place, such as adjusting the skill numbers of the computer players. This way Week 1 will always be January 2-8, Week 7 is February 20-26 and Week 52 is December 25-31.

g) If you do add dates, it opens up more immersion possibilities. Right now the screen will say 'Next Week' or 'Next Match' just before you click in the upper left. {Sometimes it says 'Next Match' even though it is about to change to the next week. I have not tracked closely when this happens. It may only happen when a player is competing in a two week tournament.}
It could say 'Advance to Week 7 (February 20-26)' instead.
Then perhaps in the news section it might say 'Olivia Crouchant turns 19 on February 25. Happy birthday, Olivia!' You might think this is ridiculous, but many players of your game would love it. I certainly think it should be restricted to only the players you have under contract, and perhaps yourself if you include a birth date option for the coach.

h) Right now every time a match ends I have to cycle through my players to see if any of them have training hours available before I advance to the next match. Often they do not, and this puts wear on my poor mouse, not to mention taking time. I know that somewhere there is a mention of which is the current day of the week, but I can never find it when I look. (I should just write down which screen the next time I notice it. :oops: )

Instead of just 'Next Week' and 'Next Match' you could add 'Next Day', and if you are using dates, it would then say 'Advance to February 25'. {This would be a bad place to mention the birthday, because many dates are not played out, so it could easily be passed over. Putting it in News would be better, and the people who choose the option not to read the news would not be bothered by it.}
I would then know that if it says 'Advance to next match' that I do not need to check my players for free training hours. I would only have to check them if it said 'Advance to next day' or 'Advance to next week'. I know that the program will prompt me to check for free hours when the week is about to change, but I am quite certain that it does not when the day changes, and I have sometimes lost hours that way.

Keeping track of what the date was when you lost in the final at Wimbledon could help improve immersion. :wink:

{We are finally done with the date suggestions. Good thing, since I am again approaching novel length. :shock: }

This other group of suggestions has to do with the ways in which computer players are searched for and displayed.

i) The way to scroll up and down the players on the ratings list works pretty well when there are only two or three hundred of them, but once there gets to be 700 or 900 of them, it becomes very difficult to click in such a way as to only move the list by twenty places. Much more often it will jump by one hundred, and then require inching back toward who you wanted.

I would like to see arrows pointing up and down. Clicking on an arrow would move the list by twenty each time. This could be either in addition to the current scroll bar, or instead of it. My Mac browser is set up to have an up arrow at the top of most scroll bars and a down arrow at the bottom of them, but some have both arrows together at either the top or bottom. Any way would work.

j) On the screen for searching for players to contract with, I would like to see a new item to sort with and a filter. I would like to be able to sort the players by age, probably from oldest to youngest. This would have to be a new column added on the right.

Since this list is much shorter than the ranking lists, you would not need the up and down arrows. In that place I would put a filter similar to the one on the page for trainers. It would have (—), meaning no filter, and the six styles of play (puncher, counter, etc.). No column would be needed for this.

k) On the screen for doubles partners, I would like to see the same filter, but age isn't important there. Instead I would like to be able to sort by Doubles Spirit, from highest to lowest.

l) This last one I do not expect you to accept, but I will put it forward anyway. I think that the current method of forming doubles teams gives players under contract an enormous advantage over computer players.

It is very easy to form a team with a partner who is much, much better than you are. This results in nearly automatic wins in doubles at the same tournaments where you go out in the first round in singles. This enables the contract player to accumulate many more experience points than they 'should' (two or three times as many), which allows them to either very rapidly increase their mental skills or 'purchase' a round or two (or three) in singles, which in turn artificially inflates their ranking.

I know that you aren't going to change the basic system, and on rare occassion computer players will also pair up with vastly better partners, but I would like to make it a little more difficult for the contract players to take avantage of this.

My suggestion is that the information available from the doubles partner screen be limited. There should be no option to rank them by their singles ranking, and when you click through to each player's personal screen, the ranking shown there should be for doubles, not singles (which is the present default). If a coach was determined, she could leave the doubles screen and find the information elsewhere, but when looking for a doubles partner, all she should be concerned with is their doubles information (which is why I suggested adding a sort by Doubles Spirit).
***
Thank you for providing this forum. I hope your game is selling well enough to keep you developing. :)
Curtis
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Postby manutoo » 30 May 2008, 08:06

d) I changed the way to get double partners, now it should be easier to break 2 teams of 2 coached players.
I also found a lil bug in this case, so it wasn't helping either ! :whistle:

e) yup, there was a bug when the birthday month was after August
about the 1-10 for the day, my guess is that you mis-click the arrows

f) g) ... I'll think about it...

h) There's no "Next Day" (except if you activate a special setting in the Tennis.ini).
Whatever happens, you should always get your training hours in the training screen before playing the following match (except between the weeks of the 2-week tournaments, but I just fixed this)...
And if you don't get them, it's probably a bug... ;)

i) you already have arrows on top & botton of the scroll bar, just click on them... :whistle:
If your mouse has a wheel, you can also use it to scroll step by step

j) k) I'll think about it

l) You're right on the problem, but not on the solution... ;)
I updated the double partner list so players that are too well ranked in Singles cannot be listed anymore (which is very logical with the ranking limitation already present in in Doubles)
ManuTOO
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Postby Curtis » 30 May 2008, 19:48

e+i) Those arrows — If you had not pointed those out, I probably never would have realized what those things were. :oops: On my screen they looked like parentheses. I thought they were something that appeared sometimes to show what feature your mouse would activate if you clicked just then.

This makes so many of the features in this game much more functional! :lol:

And of course you were right about how both of those work.
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