safe shot bug

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safe shot bug

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 23 Apr 2014, 16:35

Dear ManuToo :wink: ,
because previous tread got spammed by some kids, I'll try to summarize this bug.

The 'safe short bug' is abused for spam net in a pathetic way in singles and doubles by releasing the button at the final moment to reach the passing shot by a safe volley which hits around the middle on the other side of the net. From this position, due to this slow safe volley, the lob becomes senseless (and not deep) and the following passing shots can be reached by standing close to the net.

I've sent you a .dmo file ... here are the scores where this bug appears:

  • 1st set
    0/0 30/30 30/40
    0/1 30/0
    1/1 40/0
    1/2 15/15 40/40 Ad/40
    2/3 30/15 40/15 40/30
    3/4 0/30
    5/4 0/0 15/0 15/15 30/30 40/40 :lol:
  • 2nd set
    0/0 0/0 15/15 30/30 Ad/40
    0/1 0/0 30/0
    1/1 0/0 15/0 40/40
    1/2 0/30
    1/3 0/0
    1/4 0/0 15/0
    2/4 30/30
    3/4 0/0 15/15 30/15 40/15
    4/4 0/0 30/30
    5/4 0/0 30/0

*3-4 40-15 in 2nd set is the best example I guess.

Thanks for your subsequent efforts.

With quiescent regards,
Psevdónymos.

PS.: And kids, please don't spam. :roll:
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby manutoo » 24 Apr 2014, 04:59

Hello,

no safe shots on these points :
0/1 30/0
1/2 15/15 40/40
2/3 30/15 40/30
Most are sliced volleys : a bit slow, kinda short, low, and slightly curved. (I stopped to watch after)

So it seems your main problem is actually with the sliced volleys, which are maybe a bit too short...
For the safe shot, it seems to be more or less ok, though, except when done on very low ball ; in that case, it seems to be too short & low ; I'll check if I can make it get higher & a bit deeper in this specific case.
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby SPC » 24 Apr 2014, 06:02

manutoo wrote:Hello,

no safe shots on these points :
0/1 30/0
1/2 15/15 40/40
2/3 30/15 40/30
Most are sliced volleys : a bit slow, kinda short, low, and slightly curved. (I stopped to watch after)

So it seems your main problem is actually with the sliced volleys, which are maybe a bit too short...
For the safe shot, it seems to be more or less ok, though, except when done on very low ball ; in that case, it seems to be too short & low ; I'll check if I can make it get higher & a bit deeper in this specific case.

I think the main problem with this relates more to the ability to put the ball in play with the no shot, i mean B1+B2 buttom get the jump to stretch on the net, release it just before making contact to the ball and the ball goes in every time, instead of getting in play when you have any hit button on.... kind of silly that you miss more volleys while hitting the ball than when just making a NO SHOT.
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 24 Apr 2014, 07:43

manutoo wrote:Hello,

no safe shots on these points :
0/1 30/0
1/2 15/15 40/40
2/3 30/15 40/30
Most are sliced volleys : a bit slow, kinda short, low, and slightly curved. (I stopped to watch after)

So it seems your main problem is actually with the sliced volleys, which are maybe a bit too short...
For the safe shot, it seems to be more or less ok, though, except when done on very low ball ; in that case, it seems to be too short & low ; I'll check if I can make it get higher & a bit deeper in this specific case.

So in this case,

  • slice volleys should be a little bit longer and maybe higher,
  • and safe shots at net be noticeable longer / higher and get an error rate (less than B1/B2 volleys of course) like every other shot, especially on hard and / or well placed passing shots. Nobody in tennis are able to volley (especially during serve and volley) every (hard and well placed) return to an optimal position (middle, slow and shot by safe short) without an error rate. :roll:
Even CPU with full net stats in Incredible 10 is passable / makes errors on good pass shots without this bug shot. Thanks.

With quiescent regards,
Psevdónymos.
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Nadi madi » 24 Apr 2014, 17:42

manutoo wrote:So it seems your main problem is actually with the sliced volleys, which are maybe a bit too short...
For the safe shot, it seems to be more or less ok, though, except when done on very low ball ; in that case, it seems to be too short & low ; I'll check if I can make it get higher & a bit deeper in this specific case.


If you are gonna fix this one, then please try to fix also the short angle with body which is abused by some players to hit passing shots on the run. :roll:
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby The Joker » 24 Apr 2014, 18:50

EveryBody wanna fixes something which is used frequently by someone who beats him... so grow up guys ... instead .. go find some way to solve your problems tactically instead of making a useless post .... for me .. i think short slice is bad and overused.. still i never made such post named short slice and did so ... :/
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Algo » 24 Apr 2014, 19:09

The Joker wrote:EveryBody wanna fixes something which is used frequently by someone who beats him... so grow up guys ... instead .. go find some way to solve your problems tactically instead of making a useless post .... for me .. i think short slice is bad and overused.. still i never made such post named short slice and did so ... :/

You probably should have if you feel like that, you're probably right (indeed, you are :lol: )
Been there, done that, complaining out of soreness, but it's always been for a game improvement rather than only because I lost, as I would think Heinrich's post is about.
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Maryanucci » 24 Apr 2014, 19:24

Hello friends, I also use net but I will be realistic.
Safe volley for me, it's a stupid part of this game. No such things happen in real tennis, and it should be out of the game.
I ​​can see conflict between two styles, good player on net and a good defensive player from the baseline.
That I saw this game on the grass wouldn't have anything against this type of playing. However, when I see something like this on clay, it's clear to everyone that this game have a big mistake.
In real life, this kind of game is easy win for spin player from the baseline, and here we have the opposite effect.

Example, why Samreas has 7 titles at Wimbledon and none at Roland Garros? Will we have another volley RG final?

Reality is that volley players play well on grass, and defense players on clay. Hard surfaces should be in the middle.
My suggestion : to set up volleys difficulty with surface type (same as spin) and eliminate unrealistic shots like a safe volley and so on...

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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Stajus » 24 Apr 2014, 23:35

Algo wrote:You probably should have if you feel like that, you're probably right (indeed, you are :lol: )
Been there, done that, complaining out of soreness, but it's always been for a game improvement rather than only because I lost, as I would think Heinrich's post is about.


Well, it's unfortunate...but I don't see any improvements in TE since 2012. If anything singles is similar with a bit more space to abuse some funny shots or tactics (read, singles became a bit worse) and doubles has become a lot worse, borderline pointless :whistle: So, it appears that you didn't complain enough :lol: :aureola:
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Algo » 24 Apr 2014, 23:59

I'm a quiet person :lol:

Serious note: problem is that it seems "my" ideas have been impopular, so when they are somewhat added, other people complain and then we're back to where we were or an insufficient midterm at best (e.g backwards movement handicap to avoid circle defense, though that was SPC's idea)
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby manutoo » 25 Apr 2014, 03:43

SPC,
it's not a "no shot", it's a "safe shot". The downside is you can't control much its direction.

Heinrich von Westphalen,
the safe shot already gives error on the most difficult balls.
I'll see if I can tune the slice volleys as well.

Nadi madi,
it's supposed to be like that : it's the last resort shot when there's no time to prepare a more difficult one ; but it's rather slow, so it's not that good either.

Maryanucci,
volleys are more efficiency on fast surfaces. The problem is that on slow surfaces, it's a bit easier to reach the net and the rallies are longer, thus it creates more occasion to go to the net.

Stajus,
it didn't have any major gameplay changes since end of 2012, except for the back speed tuning ; most changes lately have been small tuning & little (or less little) exploit fixes. Doubles almost didn't change, as all your issues are mostly linked to the Elite controls, that existed long before 2012.
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Nadi madi » 25 Apr 2014, 04:30

manutoo wrote:
Nadi madi,
it's supposed to be like that : it's the last resort shot when there's no time to prepare a more difficult one ; but it's rather slow, so it's not that good either.


same for the safe shot....it's the last resort when i go to the net and try to volley from a far position or try to volley a very low shot ... and i don't see anything wrong with the slice volley.
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 25 Apr 2014, 05:52

manutoo wrote:SPC,
it's not a "no shot", it's a "safe shot". The downside is you can't control much its direction.

Heinrich von Westphalen,
the safe shot already gives error on the most difficult balls.
I'll see if I can tune the slice volleys as well.

Nadi madi,
it's supposed to be like that : it's the last resort shot when there's no time to prepare a more difficult one ; but it's rather slow, so it's not that good either.

Maryanucci,
volleys are more efficiency on fast surfaces. The problem is that on slow surfaces, it's a bit easier to reach the net and the rallies are longer, thus it creates more occasion to go to the net.

Stajus,
it didn't have any major gameplay changes since end of 2012, except for the back speed tuning ; most changes lately have been small tuning & little (or less little) exploit fixes. Doubles almost didn't change, as all your issues are mostly linked to the Elite controls, that existed long before 2012.


Thanks a lot for the fixes on safe shot and slice volley. It will be an important improvement especially on clay and hard.

Kind regard,
Heinrich.
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby Tene » 25 Apr 2014, 07:07

manutoo wrote:SPC,
it's not a "no shot", it's a "safe shot". The downside is you can't control much its direction.

Heinrich von Westphalen,
the safe shot already gives error on the most difficult balls.
I'll see if I can tune the slice volleys as well.

Nadi madi,
it's supposed to be like that : it's the last resort shot when there's no time to prepare a more difficult one ; but it's rather slow, so it's not that good either.

Maryanucci,
volleys are more efficiency on fast surfaces. The problem is that on slow surfaces, it's a bit easier to reach the net and the rallies are longer, thus it creates more occasion to go to the net.

Stajus,
it didn't have any major gameplay changes since end of 2012, except for the back speed tuning ; most changes lately have been small tuning & little (or less little) exploit fixes. Doubles almost didn't change, as all your issues are mostly linked to the Elite controls, that existed long before 2012.

Well I am a good volleyer. So i hope you look into our opinions. I think safe shots(no shot strike) are quite vulnerable. Just hit a powerful shot at the volleyer and i am sure if he plays safe(no shot strike), then it goes many times OUT rather than in or he might even leave the shot. But in the demo file, i saw Nadi Madi trying to cover the distance and play safe. It's quite frustrating for a defender but i don't think that's easy to do. All you need is a fraction of second to miss the ball if you are not in right position. Nadi played pretty good to cover them up. Manutoo the only thing that made the difference were the NET cords. Two times Heinrich was broke were at very important occasions in the match due to net cords. If there were no net-cords then it could have been a 3set match. So i think the biggest bug here is the net cord. I mean no one would willingly play net cord in real tennis and especially in a computer game(where players have ideal conditions), there should not be such things. May be it looks realistic to real life tennis where we see net cords. But come on! The player who plays better tennis should win the point not the luckiest ones. Please remove these net cords from game play or atleast decrease their effect on important points lol.
About Slice-volley tuning, Manutoo, Slice volley is the only safe shot volleyers can hit from the net, remaining shots are very vulnerable and they go OUT if the volleyer plays the ball close to his body. Yeah they are quite effective on clay because of the turn effect on the ball and you can tune them. But make sure that it still goes IN(it is the only safe volley). Slice volleys should not turn the ball so much like it is the case but it should still go IN with less Turn effect. Hope you understand what i said ':D
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Re: safe shot bug

Postby The Joker » 25 Apr 2014, 12:22

Stajus wrote: I don't see any improvements

yea as if u r playing from 2012 to now lol ....
for heinrich .... u can blame volley on clay as a reason of loss .... if any volleyer beats u on clay with it ... but that actually doesnt happen... i tried volley vs u in it and i think i am one of best volleyers on TE (Kuga, Nadalesque , Nadi as well) ... i was bagelled and lost some 1/6 and 2/6 too ... but nadi used it vs u .. he beat u ... so its not style problem ... its your problem cuz u dunno how to deal with it ...
If i worked in your way .. after that bagel i could have made topic and say for example: why everytime i make serve and volley u receive too short low ball and why spin is too bugged... i never did that and instead of talking in such
Heinrich von Westphalen wrote: pathetic way
i played from baseline vs u and won a set 6/3 .... so grow up guys
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