Mana Games

[manutoo]

Hello,

I got the following Bug Report :

Hey, Manutoo can you check this game, i think Slices are too strong on clay, slow surfaces. They neutralize most rallies. Here is a xkt match on clay where we have many 25+ rallies just because either side hitting slices to backhand side. Since top spin shots kind of goes middle but slices effectively goes long it is hard to escape from this pattern. IMO slices should be more punishable especially on clay when you have time to get into position. Shouldn't be possible to hit %80 slices in rally. I said few more time but short acceleration speeds are really low. and speed goes way down outside of absolute perfect shot or after stamina downs. Should be regularly 130kmh i think.

1) I checked and it didn't feel too bad, although I guess the slice neutralizes a bit too much the opponent's BH, so I lowered that a bit for the next update

2) I'll check more the short accel, but it didn't feel too bad

[Mahmut]

Hello,

1) I checked and it didn't feel too bad, although I guess the slice neutralizes a bit too much the opponent's BH, so I lowered that a bit for the next update.

2) I'll check more the short accel, but it didn't feel too bad

1) Yeah, good to discuss this with everyone. I stand by what i said. I think it does neutralize too much. It should be more punishable. I think you shouldn't stay alive in the rally with hitting so many slices in 1 rally on clay. Idk the prespective on other surfaces might be okay but we can have seperate slice efficiency on clay or different surfaces. Because on clay more often you have time to get into position and load your shots same for recovering from positions.

In my match sometimes i even tried to stay on BH side since i know my opponent will hit slices to there to take into forehand even there i couldn't hit through or punish slices. It might also related to my skill and the stamina but i definitely think slices are unneccessarily strong on clay. like bail out shot.

[Mahmut]

Idk solution outside of lowering as a suggestion, On clay when you have time to get into position you can have + speed bonus on acceleration shots. Or when you have both some time and get into forehand against Slice we can have some bonus. IRL since players gets more time on clay as far i see slices are quite more punishable on clay or definitely not as good of a precision shot like in the game.

2) My problem with short acc are they are not effective on clay. Their speed fluctuates quite much. I can hit lower than normal FH short with short acc FH etc. But most importantly i don't see any advantage of using it especially on clay instead of acceleration.

Their cons are more but not effective on clay imo. Like other surfaces maybe even more on clay IRL, Serve +1 shots are quite important. Sometimes players can hit more winners since they get more time to load the shot on clay. It's quite hard to hit through opponents or get weak reply by hitting short acceleration even with time. It can have seperate option on clay if most people are okay with it's efficiency on other surfaces.

[KINGBARBOZA]

I think its a big mistake you made in the new update to make the slice worse, the game is already a complete topspin/accel spam fest online with 99% of players spamming accel and topspin exclusively from the baseline with absolutely 0 variety. Now you have made the slice even worse which makes it less viable when it was already rarely used. Slice was barely effective as it was and could only be used really skilfully like on a wrong foot, or a short slice to draw an easier shot or error and now you are making it even harder to play with any sort of variety. Also think the on the run shot was perfectly fine as it was, and added a nice skill gap on clay, as it's pretty difficult to hit well but makes a huge difference at the high level and rally dynamic if you can hit it well or not therefore giving an on the run shot buff to bulldog talent seems cheap to me. I think Mahmut may be right that the short accel is not great, but to be honest I think that its just the clay bounce, and most people will prefer to hit an accel rather than a short accel when given the opportunity.

[Mahmut]

I strongly disagree on clay. idk what is the general view but they were opposite to me, too much effective on clay. Did you played on clay? It was locking me or opponents on the BH side. It's hard to escape from this pattern. Everyone has their preferences but i think it's better + more realistic now. It's already difficult to hit through opponent on clay. Slice was quite neutralizer in rallies. I don't think players uses slices so much outside of defensive shots on clay IRL. You are looking from one way maybe these talents like Bulldog were at disadvantage earlier.

Variety also includes like the shots on run or many other things. I didn't see anyone complain about talent boosts of All-rounder and all court attacker. Sure many uses. There were so much boosts there 5-6 months ago. it means either these talents were at disadvantage before or opposite now compared to other talents. I think it's the second option. Also i think you were not playing xkt? So game dynamics are completely different there and vanilla compared to WTET. Players are slower and i don't think you have x2 Slice talent there. IMO game shouldn't focus only high level players rather what feels right.
Bulldog is like snynom with this i'm open to have this kind of little boosts to other talents to differ since it came to All-rounder.

[knich]

I agree with King that the slices in the game are not effective enough. Slices IRL are hard to return if they are power slice...not talking about floaters. On clay, they are a very common defensive strike to allow recovery and great for net approach. CPU kills even the most powerful slice in the game.

[KINGBARBOZA]

I strongly disagree on clay. idk what is the general view but they were opposite to me, too much effective on clay. Did you played on clay? It was locking me or opponents on the BH side. It's hard to escape from this pattern. Everyone has their preferences but i think it's better + more realistic now. It's already difficult to hit through opponent on clay. Slice was quite neutralizer in rallies. I don't think players uses slices so much outside of defensive shots on clay IRL. You are looking from one way maybe these talents like Bulldog were at disadvantage earlier.

Variety also includes like the shots on run or many other things. I didn't see anyone complain about talent boosts of All-rounder and all court attacker. Sure many uses. There were so much boosts there 5-6 months ago. it means either these talents were at disadvantage before or opposite now compared to other talents. I think it's the second option. Also i think you were not playing xkt? So game dynamics are completely different there and vanilla compared to WTET. Players are slower and i don't think you have x2 Slice talent there. IMO game shouldn't focus only high level players rather what feels right.
Bulldog is like snynom with this i'm open to have this kind of little boosts to other talents to differ since it came to All-rounder.

I've played a lot of sets on clay, and I would say I'm one of the players online who uses a lot of slices compared to others. To be honest with you, against similar level players to me unless I hit an absolutely perfect slice, it's almost always worse than hitting a topspin, normal or accel shot in the same situation, especially on clay where short slices are less effective due to the bounce slowing down so much. I've never had any experiences problems being "locked" on the backhand side as you put it.

I fully disagree with the on the run shot buff from a talent. The way TE is with the positioning and charging system makes hitting on the run shots really tough and you need to really be perfect position wise and aiming wise to hit them well on the run. It's something that is rewarding and one of the only shots which is properly skill based. I'm indifferent to the serve talents, as the serve mechanic is already void of any skill and 95% based on RNG, but adding an artificial buff to one of the most skill based shots is cheap in my opinion. I'm generally not a fan of the talent system or the "acceleration traits", as in my opinion they are generally overall lazy buffs which have effects without any player controlled gameplay mechanics. Generally I am more biased and drawn towards more skill based competitive play which is where our opinions differ I think.

[manutoo]

KINGBARBOZA,
wednesday's update lowered a tiny bit the efficiency of the slice against the 2H-BH and a tiny bit more against the tiny 1H-BH. It didn't change its efficiency against the FH.
The slice effective order is still : FH < 2H-BH < 1H-BH .

[Mahmut]

I've played a lot of sets on clay, and I would say I'm one of the players online who uses a lot of slices compared to others. To be honest with you, against similar level players to me unless I hit an absolutely perfect slice, it's almost always worse than hitting a topspin, normal or accel shot in the same situation, especially on clay where short slices are less effective due to the bounce slowing down so much. I've never had any experiences problems being "locked" on the backhand side as you put it.

I fully disagree with the on the run shot buff from a talent. The way TE is with the positioning and charging system makes hitting on the run shots really tough and you need to really be perfect position wise and aiming wise to hit them well on the run. It's something that is rewarding and one of the only shots which is properly skill based. I'm indifferent to the serve talents, as the serve mechanic is already void of any skill and 95% based on RNG, but adding an artificial buff to one of the most skill based shots is cheap in my opinion. I'm generally not a fan of the talent system or the "acceleration traits", as in my opinion they are generally overall lazy buffs which have effects without any player controlled gameplay mechanics. Generally I am more biased and drawn towards more skill based competitive play which is where our opinions differ I think.

Okay, fair but again your thoughts based on only WTET? or did you played xkt aswell? I was feeling i had better chance to hit slice instead of BH top spin shot. When i play in xkt after some time didn't feel confident at hitting BH top spin because i either hit DTL UE against deep slice of my opponent or i hit bit short as usual hitting DTL BH top spin. I didn't want to go cross court(I was lefty) to forehand of opponent. He did the same. Anyway after update i just played 2 game i didn't tested idk but these were issues.

About shots on the run i feel in reality it happens more often with better efficiency and it is part of the game. In tennis games(though i didn't played all) on simulations it is harder to execute and not as efficient imo since speed lower etc. Like i said there were many boosts to 2 style for 6 months. They are different type of players IRL aswell. Maybe you prefer fully difficult not incredible things shots(which happens real life sometimes) but that's not real tennis imo. These kind of things also adds to variety, game dynamics instead of relying just acceleration with timing little movement, probably just a small or normal boost.