Mana Games

[Azoak]

Some questions about player's attributes


Hello, I'm Azo.
This is my first time posting on the forum, but I have played at least 500 hours with the TE series.

To further my knowledge of TE4, mostly with regard to player's attributes, I have carefully read the documentations for TE2013 and TEM2. However, for some attributes, I could not understand how they work. So I came here to ask questions about that.

- - -

1. Does Strength work the same in TE4 as it does in TEM2?
If so, I wondered a bit why this is only present in the character sheets of COM players.


2. It is explained that when a player is stressed, his "level" will lower and that Cold Blood is what suppresses this. What is "level" here?
Is this the "Level" of the COM players, which is tied to the Sublevel? If not, I thought it might be a handicap to skill value or some other effect.


3. Are the formulas available publicly for determining the speed and success rate of a serve?
The TE2013 documentation shows how the skills affect the speed and success rate. Also, an example is given for speed on a 5-step scale.
I would like to know more details about these. This means that if I want to create a player who averages 192 km/h with 63% success on his serves, I would like to know what values I should set. So I plan to hit a serve over and over again to statistically examine how the skills work. However, if the formulas are available publicly, I would like to know that before I or my players hurt their shoulders and arms... Of course, if it is a secret I will not demand a definitive answer.


4. Is there any information about bonuses and handicaps with the new playing styles?
In the TE 2013 documentation, I read about bonuses and handicaps with playing styles. I would like to know that same kind of information for new playing styles, i.e. Counter Puncher, Bulldog, etc.


5. Do you have any additional information on Passing and Reflexes?
In the TEM2 documentation, these skills are not described individually. But by their names, I can roughly guess what they do. Do these skills have any special functions that might be difficult for the users to guess?

- - -

I know I asked a lot of questions all of a sudden...
Anyway, I love the TE series. I would be happy to see TE continue to evolve in the future. Wishing you good health and nice work-life balance.

Thank you!

[manutoo]

Hello,

1) Yes, but as its effect is small, it's hidden for the Human player : its value is identical to the Stamina.

2) You can read "level of play", not "difficulty level" ; it means most of the skills will be lowered ( = only the ones making sense in the context of the stress ; eg: running speed is not affected)

3) Average Serve Speed is, for men : 95 + 1.06 * ServicePower
The average success rate is :
if Power is equal to or bigger than Consistency : 1 - 0.3 * (0.9 ^ ((Consistency - Power) * 17.5 / 100))
if Power is less than Consistency : 0.7 * (0.875 ^ (Power - Consistency) / 10)
Note : the formulas are actually a bit more complicated, but this should cover the basics ; don't forget the success rate can widely differ from one set to another

4) Here : https://www.managames.com/tennismanager ... ml#3dmatch

5) Higher reflexes = lower reaction time
Higher passing = use the acceleration more often to do a passing shot, aim in the hole more often, aim farther from the volleyer


And thanks for the good words.

[Azoak]

Hello Manu,
Thank you so much for your quick answers! All the answers are perfect for me and very helpful. My players also seem relieved that they no longer have to hit countless serves.

Based on these formulas, I'll try to find the ideal service-skill value for me. I know that in a real game, players will aim for aces and their precision skill will effect on it. Probably height and other factors will also have "a bit more complicated" influence. I'll see about those in my own efforts.

And I'm sorry about the new playing styles, that was written in the 3D Match section...... I had missed that. Many thanks for your kind answers to all my questions!

[Azoak]

Hello Manu,
I suggest to increase the average serve speed a little. Specifically, when power is 100, the speed needs to be about 210 km/h.

A few days ago, in another topic, I was given the formulas for average serve speed.
Using that, the average speed for the 100-service-power is 201 km/h.

By the way, today I calculated the average speed of the 1st serve of the players using the stats from the official ATP website. Then I found several players with average speeds higher than 201 km/h. Here are the statistics for 2022.

[ Name - Times of 1st serve - Average speed ]
R. Opelka - 744 - 129.2 mi/h (208.0 km/h)
A. Zverev - 768 - 128.8 mi/h (207.4 km/h)
A. Bublik - 786 - 128.5 mi/h (206.8 km/h)
M. Berrettini - 867 - 128.3 mi/h (206.6 km/h)
M. Cressy - 1663 - 127.8 mi/h (205.8 km/h)
J. Isner - 892 - 127.0 mi/h (204.5 km/h)
H. Hurkacz - 2024 - 126.2 mi/h (203.2 km/h)
F. Auger-Aliassime - 2107 - 125.9 mi/h (202.7 km/h)

This is just the players I found, there may actually be others. All of this data has over 700 times, so I think this has enough statistical worth. For these players, theoretically, the power should be set above 100. I know that by editing the TrainingClubPlayers ini file directly, I can set values above 100, but it would not be recommended basically...

Therefore, I suggest to increase the serve speed a little to bring it closer to real tennis. I would like to experience those 200+ km/h 1st serve on difficulties that the users and COM players can compete fairly (i.e. Pro and Master).

Thank you.

[manutoo]

Hum, I checked and I have some doubts about the ATP stats ; eg:
- https://www.atptour.com/en/scores/stats ... /416/ms003 => Zverev max speed = 222km/h ; average = 219km/h ; that seems statistically "odd", at very best
- Berretenni average at the US Open is a tiny bit under 201km/h over all his matches (one of his matches => https://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/1124.html ) .

I'm not totally against raising a bit the average in TE4, but I'd rather do it only on a very solid basis.

Also, I'm still considering a "Boom boom" talent for the serve, that would produce a big serve from time to time, and thus raise the average speed, so I will likely not do any changes before this point is settled.

[Azoak]

Thanks for replying. Those two examples are indeed odd, especially about Zverev...

I'll let you know how I did my research. I used a function called Serve Tracker. The data I showed you was also calculated from that. As I'm a newcomer to this forum, I can't post the URL due to spam protection.
You can see it by going to the official ATP website and choosing "Stats" and "Serve Tracker" from the menu.

Zverev and Tsitsipas played three matches in 2022, so the data there includes non-Rome matches. But, according to just it, Zverev seems to have an average speed of 129.4 mih/h (208.4 km/h) against Tsitsipas.

In addition, I only needed data for 2022, but you can see more data in Serve Tracker.

I agree with you that you want a very solid basis. It shouldn't be raised unnecessarily. And I feel that "Boom boom" sounds very good!
Thank you for listening to me and sharing your ideas!

[knich]

I like "Boom Boom" idea and Boris Becker will thank you for it.

Personally..I think the serve speeds are too low. The in game serve speed seems low compared to real life. I have "an hour" to return most serves from CPU players and I can return every serve even the 230km serve with acceleration. That shouldn't happen in real life.

I just played a match against Taylor Fritz. He is first player in game to consistently serve the ball hard. Unfortunately, many of the CPU players don't do that (even if the serve speed registers high). The serves are easy to return and with acceleration. I think this is in part why it is easy to return a winner almost every time against a serve and volley.

By contrast, my HUM player has 100 serve power, 98 precision, and 92 consistency but he can only serve a few aces per match. He should have at least 10 aces on average and at times 20-30 aces.

[Piporono]

I like "Boom Boom" idea and Boris Becker will thank you for it.

Personally..I think the serve speeds are too low. The in game serve speed seems low compared to real life. I have "an hour" to return most serves from CPU players and I can return every serve even the 230km serve with acceleration. That shouldn't happen in real life.

I just played a match against Taylor Fritz. He is first player in game to consistently serve the ball hard. Unfortunately, many of the CPU players don't do that (even if the serve speed registers high). The serves are easy to return and with acceleration. I think this is in part why it is easy to return a winner almost every time against a serve and volley.

By contrast, my HUM player has 100 serve power, 98 precision, and 92 consistency but he can only serve a few aces per match. He should have at least 10 aces on average and at times 20-30 aces.

Just to make sure, are you playing TE4 or TE2013? Also, what's the difficulty level that you are playing with?

I'm asking since this is the opposite of what I am experiencing. A 180 km/h serve is already impossible for me to return if the ball hit the side edges of the service box. A 200km/h serve landing close to the edge is very difficult to have a good return since the ball usually just floats back to the opponent at a slow pace with a high arc.

I'm playing at Incredible 2 btw, and it's almost a guaranteed lost point if Isner lands hit first serve in.

[knich]

Just to make sure, are you playing TE4 or TE2013? Also, what's the difficulty level that you are playing with?

I'm asking since this is the opposite of what I am experiencing. A 180 km/h serve is already impossible for me to return if the ball hit the side edges of the service box. A 200km/h serve landing close to the edge is very difficult to have a good return since the ball usually just floats back to the opponent at a slow pace with a high arc.

I'm playing at Incredible 2 btw, and it's almost a guaranteed lost point if Isner lands hit first serve in.

TE4....I play Master 8. I just tried Incredible 2. I didn't have a problem returning serves much more than Master 8, although on Incredible 2 the are more serves closer to the line. The difference is in the rallies. The CPU is too powerful. I can't tell the difference between #500 in the world and #2. They both have pinpoint accuracy and high acceleration. They end points very quickly if I hit a normal shot. My only chance to keep the rally, even on clay, is with acceleration shots. But IRL not every shot, much like serve, is with full effort. How can you maintain rallies longer than just a few strokes per point? Do you use primarily acceleration or normal shot?