Comments about Build 38

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Comments about Build 38

Postby Togtdyalttai » 01 Sep 2009, 06:44

manutoo wrote:- Stats : forced errors on the run are now counted as winners for the opponent


That's a bit strange. :thinking:
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2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby that_dood » 01 Sep 2009, 12:36

manutoo wrote:Changes :
- Stats : forced errors on the run are now counted as winners for the opponent


lol...surely it can't be a winner!!!????

I think what I was trying to get across in my other posts is that it should not be anything. It is not a winner to the opponent, but it is not an error to yourself.

Anyway, hopefully that gets changed next update.

Other than that I think the other updates have been really impressive and the game has improved significantly.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby manutoo » 01 Sep 2009, 13:39

Stats keep track of how points ended. There are only 2 ways to end the point : a winner, or an error. An error can be unforced or forced. You didn't want to see this kind of errors kept in the "Error" stats, then it falls in the "Winners", just 2 choices, there's not such thing as it's not an error nor a winner... :roll:
By extension, if a player hits a strike that let no chance to his opponent to put back in play, then it's a winner, even if his opponents touches the ball. Depending of the statistician and its methodology, it'll fall either in the winner or the fault category in a TV match.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby that_dood » 01 Sep 2009, 17:50

Not true (I think).

A clean winner by definition in tennis is when the opponent does not touch the ball (ruling out it being classed as a winner). An error is when a player strikes the ball and it does not land in court. When the ball just clips the racket it is not a strike so that means it can't be an error.

Stats don't have to add up, they are just a reflection of how the match is played out.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby Togtdyalttai » 01 Sep 2009, 19:59

manutoo wrote:Stats keep track of how points ended. There are only 2 ways to end the point : a winner, or an error. An error can be unforced or forced. You didn't want to see this kind of errors kept in the "Error" stats, then it falls in the "Winners", just 2 choices, there's not such thing as it's not an error nor a winner... :roll:
By extension, if a player hits a strike that let no chance to his opponent to put back in play, then it's a winner, even if his opponents touches the ball. Depending of the statistician and its methodology, it'll fall either in the winner or the fault category in a TV match.


I wanted to see the errors split into unforced errors and forced errors; this isn't an improvement IMO. :annoyed:
#1
2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby CC » 02 Sep 2009, 03:24

In a match that I played today with the CPU with the latest build, a serve that I hit and the CPU barely hit on the return went sideways as a mishit, and it was counted as an ace (the "Ace #1" message displayed). I think that it should not be counted as an Ace if it is hit somewhat, right? I thought that only a completely missed good serve was an ace.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby btaylor » 02 Sep 2009, 03:48

CC

Technically it should be called a "service winner" if the returner barely touches the ball, not an "ace".
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby Brad1981 » 02 Sep 2009, 04:04

Yea, the old way of stats was better/correct. If a player gets even a little bit of racquet on the ball, it should never be counted as a winner. Maybe there can be a separate forced error and unforced error stats.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby btaylor » 02 Sep 2009, 04:09

It shouldn't be counted as a winner if the racquet touches the ball on a groundstroke, however, if the same happens on a service return...THEN it's called a "service winner"...NOT an "ace".
Last edited by btaylor on 02 Sep 2009, 04:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby CC » 02 Sep 2009, 04:26

But a service winner isn't necessarily an ace, and this was listed as an ace even though the racket touched it.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby manutoo » 02 Sep 2009, 04:48

AFAIK, Stats usually just show "Unforced Errors" or possibly "Errors", but almost never have the "Forced Errors".

CC, u're right, it shouldn't be counted as an ace, it'll be fixed for next update.

And about winners, a quote :
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=2606858&postcount=6 wrote:Actually the definition of 'winner' isn't really that clear-cut, contrary to popular belief. I've been counting only 'clean' winners in many matches & seeing that they rarely match up with the official stats.

krosero asked Leo Levin, who is a statistician for many of the networks, if any touched balls are counted as winners. His response:

Quote:
balls that are barely touched by the opponent are usually counted as
winners - if the opponent directs the ball back toward the net and the ball
reaches the net on the fly, the stroke is counted as a forced error not a
winner. Balls that are tipped - directed towards the side fences or stands
- are considered to be winners.

The goal of this was to appropriately award the resulting shot - i.e. was
the player able to make any kind of reasonable attempt to put the ball back
in play - if not, the result was a winning shot from the opponent.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0c

Postby Togtdyalttai » 02 Sep 2009, 05:45

I'm really surprised about that quote. It doesn't make much sense to me that a ball that was touched would be counted as a winner :? .
#1
2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
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Re: Comments about Build 38

Postby btaylor » 18 Sep 2009, 06:17

Hi Manu

Yeah, me again... 8-)
I KNOW that you tuned the sprites running 1H backhand, and you did a REALLY great job, but I notice that when my player moves backwards while making the 1H backhand stroke that he still has a bit of a funky, unreal torso twist thing happening...It would be PERRRFECT if you could maybe look into this for a future update... :wink:
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Re: Comments about Build 38

Postby btaylor » 24 Sep 2009, 08:34

In my previous post I forgot to add that this 1H backhand "torso twist" thing I alluded to is most easy to see when playing on clay against huge topspin players where the topspin more often pushes you back in order to get a decent strike on the ball....

Try it yourself playing with 1 hander against defender with 100% topspin... :roll:
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Re: Comments about Build 38

Postby btaylor » 08 Oct 2009, 10:45

Hey Manu

Remember the Sampras serve video that I emailed you sometime back?

Well, I was comparing the TE Sampras serve with the real thing and noticed that when the real Sampras tosses the ball for the serve it is more just above his head...so much so that if he were to let it drop without swinging at it, the ball would hit him on the side of the head...

He tosses this way so as to be able to disguise the type of serve he's going to hit...the opponent can't get a read on whether it's going to be a kick, slice, or flat serve to either corner of the service box...

As it is now, the toss is too far to the right (for a right-hander) or too far to the left for a left-hander...

Maybe you could make a wee bit of an adjustment...it might help some of the TE09 players that are having a bit of a problem getting used to the rhythm of the Sampras anime...

Also, don't forget about pronating his wrist and racquet face out more to the side a bit (you said that you would try and tune it a little :wink: )
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