Reactions To Builds 19 & 20 [Tuning needed for online matches]

General discussions about the tennis games Tennis Elbow
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby manutoo » 19 Nov 2008, 07:45

jenks10s, you mean your player in the Training Club, right ?

You can save it in a Player Slot before to install a new version & reload it after the installation to prevent this to happen again...
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby jenks10s » 19 Nov 2008, 19:45

No, it was my world tour player.
When i went to load it, it just said invalid player
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby S.Williamz » 19 Nov 2008, 19:56

I have a problem with how badly the online aspect is balanced...it really doesn't take a lot of skill if you just change your stats, height, etc., and yet you can beat all players who haven't figured out how to build their char as well. For example being really short has far more advantages than being taller, a 190 cm player never has a chance against a 170 cm player, even if both players are very good. Same with many other aspects, such as one-handed backhand vs. two-handed backhand, and more. I just find it really boring having to play around with the stats all the time, to have any chance against some players. It's not a question of who is a better player, but who placed the stats better. To me, really boring. Others may like it I don't know. In TE06 it was better because the differences were really tiny, so essentially no one had advantage over the other in this respect.
I know it's hard if not impossible to balance things really well, but I'm just dissapointed in this part.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby Togtdyalttai » 19 Nov 2008, 20:47

S.Williamz wrote:I have a problem with how badly the online aspect is balanced...it really doesn't take a lot of skill if you just change your stats, height, etc., and yet you can beat all players who haven't figured out how to build their char as well. For example being really short has far more advantages than being taller, a 190 cm player never has a chance against a 170 cm player, even if both players are very good. Same with many other aspects, such as one-handed backhand vs. two-handed backhand, and more. I just find it really boring having to play around with the stats all the time, to have any chance against some players. It's not a question of who is a better player, but who placed the stats better. To me, really boring. Others may like it I don't know. In TE06 it was better because the differences were really tiny, so essentially no one had advantage over the other in this respect.
I know it's hard if not impossible to balance things really well, but I'm just dissapointed in this part.


Sigh...Whenever I'm winning dominantly, something has to change. Ok, I will say that the smaller player does have the advantage, but I'd like to know what these advantages are. Could you put the advantages between, say a 170cm player and a 200cm player, and weight differences also, in the documentation? Also, I think the balance does need a bit of tweaking, but not too much. I don't want to see net play be as dominant as it was 06, above all other things. My defensive play works well, and yet no one else uses it like I do. I would have to say that it IS more realistic than TE 06. And it does take skill other than stats, I think. I like it that it is difficult to hit winners and would like it if it stays that way, but maybe not quite as hard. I know it's very difficult to find what works for everyone, and I admire how well you've handled it so far, Manutoo. Good luck!
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby ahmedcoolio » 19 Nov 2008, 21:14

The thing is im suggesting that in fair mode everyone should have the same statistics which makes the result more fairer and there could be one more mode where the players are given full freedom to play around with their stats .That will perhaps solve the problem
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby S.Williamz » 19 Nov 2008, 21:18


Sigh...Whenever I'm winning dominantly, something has to change. Ok, I will say that the smaller player does have the advantage, but I'd like to know what these advantages are. Could you put the advantages between, say a 170cm player and a 200cm player, and weight differences also, in the documentation? Also, I think the balance does need a bit of tweaking, but not too much. I don't want to see net play be as dominant as it was 06, above all other things. My defensive play works well, and yet no one else uses it like I do. I would have to say that it IS more realistic than TE 06. And it does take skill other than stats, I think. I like it that it is difficult to hit winners and would like it if it stays that way, but maybe not quite as hard. I know it's very difficult to find what works for everyone, and I admire how well you've handled it so far, Manutoo. Good luck!


Well I'm not talking only about you...I give you an example. I play against a player who plays similar to me, he beats me, I beat him, we have tight matches. Then I get shorter, and change some other things too. I beat him 6-0 6-0 in our next match, and then continue to beat him with scores such as 6-1 6-2. Then he changes some stats as well, also uses one-handed backhand, and beats me with very easy scores. Then I ask him to tell me his stats, and I play him with an identical player as he is, and we have a very tight, close match. As you can see, the way you build your char makes a huge difference, and I don't find it fun.
That is why I'm hoping what Chiller suggested, that everyone would play similar for example in tournaments, to remove the imbalance. :wink:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby S.Williamz » 19 Nov 2008, 22:47

Ok I would like to complain about the defender style...with it, positioning doesn't matter at all...you can be in whatever position you like and never hit and error. It's like, the worse you position your player, the better shot you get, because you can hit some short shots like that, which are really difficult for the opponent...it's really dumb because you spend your time worrying a lot about not positiong wrong and hit lots of errors too and your defender style opponent just can hit and run as pleases...
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby milos » 19 Nov 2008, 22:56

jenks10s wrote:No, it was my world tour player.
When i went to load it, it just said invalid player


same thing happened to me too. ebven though i backed up the "profiles" folder, after i installed the latest update, the player was "invalid"...
any tips on saving the player manutoo?
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby S.Williamz » 19 Nov 2008, 23:31

S.Williamz wrote:Ok I would like to complain about the defender style...with it, positioning doesn't matter at all...you can be in whatever position you like and never hit and error. It's like, the worse you position your player, the better shot you get, because you can hit some short shots like that, which are really difficult for the opponent...it's really dumb because you spend your time worrying a lot about not positiong wrong and hit lots of errors too and your defender style opponent just can hit and run as pleases...


To be continued...lol

If you combine defender style with height 155 cm(the shortest possible), you can basically run any ball down without having to worry about hitting errors, and can hit incredible angles and stuff. So there really isn't any chance for someone who wants to hit powerful accelerations against a player like this. Also, if the defender has max topspin and max power(which is just crazy good combo), he can easily dominate rallies after the opponents accelerations run out.

It's just a glaring imbalance I felt I had to point out. :wink:

Of course, none of this matters in the World Tour for example, but in online games it is very problematic.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby YUGIOH » 20 Nov 2008, 04:43

Hi manutoo, hi guys, I think that although different stats, heights and stuffs affect the game in different ways, they ultimately don't really influence much. :wink: I have tried both short and tall in online games, and I don't really see too much difference between them, when it comes to the result, since either way I won. lol. :wink:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby manutoo » 20 Nov 2008, 08:35

@jenks10s & milos :
Did you change the players or the tournaments ?
I checked on my PC, and all previous saved World Tours are still valid... :?


@Everybody :
About the online balance... It's normal there are some things unbalanced, coz they need to be tested a lot to see it's unbalanced, and I expect u to report this. So no need to whine too much about it, just let me know and I'll always think about it... (about the whining, I may be thinking about someone in particular ;) )
About the speed bonus for the smaller players, I'll reduce it by 30% for the next update.

About the topspin & power, I guess I already lowered the max topspin enough.
It can be as much as advantageous to put the topspin to 0% to get a lot more powerful shots...


@S.Williamz :
>> If you combine defender style with height 155 cm(the shortest possible), you can basically run any ball down without having to worry about hitting errors, and can hit incredible angles and stuff
The defender style doesn't have any bonus about that.
Actually, it's the opposite, he'll do less short balls than other styles.
So maybe, what u mean is that the shortest ball of the defender isn't short enough (when doing the normal strike, and not centering the ball) ..?

>> Then I ask him to tell me his stats, and I play him with an identical player as he is, and we have a very tight, close match
Could u explain what stats u changed ?


@Togtdyalttai :
>> Could you put the advantages between, say a 170cm player and a 200cm player, and weight differences also, in the documentation?
Height, already in the doc : http://www.managames.com/tennis/doc/Ten ... html#speed
Weight : it's purely aesthetic.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby S.Williamz » 20 Nov 2008, 12:45

Ok sorry about the whining, I hope I'm not making Manu lose his sleep. LOL! I'm sorry I'm taking the time to let you know about these problems. :roll:

Ok, actually, I don't think the stats make a huge difference after all, because I believe everyone has them pretty similar in the end. What has made a big difference though as has been said is the player's height, the defender style where positioning doesn't matter and you can run like crazy without caring if you hit the ball with your foreHEAD, and then the max topspin, and the one-handed backhand/forehand. I'm not the only player who thinks this, I have asked a few players and they agree, they can post here too. lol
So thank you for tweaking the speed bonus, I hope it's better(although I think it would be better if there was no difference at all, just visual), and can you do something about the defender style? There is a difference! If you hit normal strikes or topspin strikes, positioning doesn't matter at all! I've tried it. What I meant with short balls was, if with defender style you position your player as badly as you can, you can easily hit some tough short angled shots. Just by positioning badly. It's really stupid. lol
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby S.Williamz » 20 Nov 2008, 13:59

Here's the problem with the defender style, in the documentation:

"lower handicap on off centered balls on the normal and topspin strikes"

This makes it so that positioning doesn't matter. :wink:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby S.Williamz » 20 Nov 2008, 18:10

Ok forget all I said about the defender style, it seems positioning doesn't matter with any normal shots. lol I hadn't noticed this before. It's actually kind of nice. I had been using accelerations most of the time, I though the positioning was similar with normal shots, but it's actually a lot easier. My bad.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2009 1.0

Postby Togtdyalttai » 20 Nov 2008, 18:56

S.Williamz wrote:Ok forget all I said about the defender style, it seems positioning doesn't matter with any normal shots. lol I hadn't noticed this before. It's actually kind of nice. I had been using accelerations most of the time, I though the positioning was similar with normal shots, but it's actually a lot easier. My bad.


Exactly what I was telling you. I usually use topspin shots, and the positioning doesn't really matter. And when I use accelerations, I'm in good position anyway.
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2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
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