OPINION abt point allotment on ladder

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Which system of ladder do u prefer???

Poll ended at 05 Jul 2008, 01:40

The current system.
1
20%
or giving points for each set a person wins
4
80%
or subtractin the points won by each player instead of sets
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 5

Postby S.Williamz » 28 Jun 2008, 17:39

ahmedcoolio wrote:
S.Williamz wrote:
ahmedcoolio wrote:Swilliamz wrote:



But it's not fair, cuz the n.1 player is clearly better than the number 2, yet the number 2 player gets to be number 1, only because he won ten sets...that not something that is fair to me.


:D well dont u think if the no 2 player beats no1 ten times then he is definatley good player how can u say tat no.1 is clearly better tat makes no sense if he is then why did he lose in the 1st place lol well i proposed two ways just not oner so u can think abt the other option too


Umm, two players play against each other 30 times, other beats the other 20-10 in sets, he isn't clearly better? Makes sense to me.
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Postby Togtdaylttai » 28 Jun 2008, 17:42

Let's designate S. Williamz as #1 and Chiller as #2 again here. Say they play 15 times, S. Williamz wins 10 and Chiller wins 5. S. Williamz would get 55 points from the head to head margin. But he would also get 18 points from the sets won past the head to head. Chiller would get 20 points from the sets he won.

I'm not sure what factor would be best to decrease the points won past the h2h margin, but here i used a factor of 3.
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Postby S.Williamz » 28 Jun 2008, 17:56

All I can say is that I'm not going to change the scoring system until someone clearly tells me what is so much better in this new suggested system than in the current system? They are almost indentical, except they emhasize certain things a bit more than the other one. Such as playing tons of matches quick, that's the main emphasis of the new system. Is that a good thing? Not for me.

I counted the top 7 rankings with the suggested system for June, and this is how they turned out:

1. Ro.Federer 121 points
2. Marat Safin 111
3.Togtdyalttai 101
4. Elena Dementieva 80
5. Brad 74
6. S.Williamz 62
7. Chiller 59,5

With the current system:

1. Ro.Federer 71 points
2. Marat Safin 63
3. S.Williamz 62
4. Elena Dementieva 49
5. Togtdyalttai 48,5
6. Brad 40
7. Chiller 36,5

Which do you feel is more accurate?

Edit: I counted with the 10 set max wins.
Last edited by S.Williamz on 28 Jun 2008, 18:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ahmedcoolio » 28 Jun 2008, 18:03

Swilliamz wrote:
Umm, two players play against each other 30 times, other beats the other 20-10 in sets, he isn't clearly better? Makes sense to me.

Ok so why do u wanna only count 10 sets per player than it shudnt be a confusion and who beats more times will clearly be ahead then or instead of takin the net sets won by each player u cud count net points won like 12-6=6 or somehin like tat may be

hey i got an idea ..u shud limit the no of matches played between 2 players to 10 or some no. so between any two players they cant post more than 10 total posts so it will be like best of 10 sets and after this nomatter how many posts they send it shdunt be counted.the 1st 10 posts shud only be counted not to create more confusion later
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Postby S.Williamz » 28 Jun 2008, 18:14

ahmedcoolio wrote:Swilliamz wrote:
Umm, two players play against each other 30 times, other beats the other 20-10 in sets, he isn't clearly better? Makes sense to me.

Ok so why do u wanna only count 10 sets per player than it shudnt be a confusion and who beats more times will clearly be ahead then or instead of takin the net sets won by each player u cud count net points won like 12-6=6 or somehin like tat may be

hey i got an idea ..u shud limit the no of matches played between 2 players to 10 or some no. so between any two players they cant post more than 10 total posts so it will be like best of 10 sets and after this nomatter how many posts they send it shdunt be counted.the 1st 10 posts shud only be counted not to create more confusion later


But don't you see that's exactly how the current system works...with the difference that players can play as many times against each other they want. There is no 10 set limit, because it's useless!
:wink:
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Postby S.Williamz » 28 Jun 2008, 18:21

Togtdaylttai wrote:Let's designate S. Williamz as #1 and Chiller as #2 again here. Say they play 15 times, S. Williamz wins 10 and Chiller wins 5. S. Williamz would get 55 points from the head to head margin. But he would also get 18 points from the sets won past the head to head. Chiller would get 20 points from the sets he won.

I'm not sure what factor would be best to decrease the points won past the h2h margin, but here i used a factor of 3.


I'm really sorry but I have a brain cramp...I still don't see what you mean. lol :oops:
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Postby S.Williamz » 02 Jul 2008, 03:00

I just wanna give my last comment on this subject because I think I finally managed to put into words why I find this current scoring the best lol, even though this thread isn't very lively anymore...

I think this system determinates who is a better player than who(in a month) the best because it doesn't put as much emphasis on playing a lot of matches, as the suggested ones do...say a player has a head to head of 10-10 against the n.1 player, and other player has 0-0(because they haven't played any matches). Some may say a head to head of 10-10 against the n. 1 is better than 0-0, but in my opinion, it really isn't. And that is because, the other player hasn't played any matches against the n.1, so how do we know if they played 20 matches the head to head wouldn't end up 10-10 also? So instead of rewarding playing a lot too much and getting many 1 set wins, the system rewards actually being a
better player, determined by the head-to-head ratio. So, h2hs of 11-10 and 1-0 are the same in value because playing tons shouldn't be rewarded too much, if we want as realistic rankings as possible.(but of course it's nice if players
play a good amount so the real h2h will be more accurate, certainly 11-10 tells much more than 1-0, which could end up 10-0. But, we don't know until players play. lol This is a really minor flaw in the scoring though imo, as mostly
there are no small 1-0 head to heads).
Now a player might still feel annoyed he/she doesn't get any points for winning many sets off the n.1 for example, say he/she has a losing h2h of 10-20 against n.1, and another player has 0-30, and yet neither gets any points! Surely it
doens't seem very fair at first glance, as the first player has won 10 sets off the n.1 and the other none. But it really isn't that simple. See, if the player who won 10 sets from n.1 is that good, and he is the only player who have
that many wins against the n. 1, certainly he should have winning h2hs against all the other players as well, yes? He/she should be the n.2. What if not, what if the player has losing h2hs against lower ranked players, yet is the only
one with wins against the n.1? Which should have more emphasis, the sets won off the best player or losing h2hs against lower ranks? I think the h2hs, as the whole thing is based on h2hs anyway. In other words, your 10 set wins againts n.1 won't mean much until you have proven to be better than all the players who haven't won any sets from n.1. Now if you prove this(have winning h2hs against other players), you will certainly become n.2, and at this point your 10 set wins against n.1 will have a real meaning even if you haven't directly gotten points from them before. You can now strip points from the number 1 by narrowing the h2h even more, or maybe even turn it into your favor, and possibly become n.1.
In my opinion, all this makes a lot of sense. I don't see many flaws in the current system, except the fact that some h2hs might not be as accurate as other due to lack of matches between two players, but it hasn't been much of a problem yet and in any case it's a really minor problem, especially when compared to the many problems the other scoring systems suggested in the poll will cause, which will lead to far more unrealistic rankings than the current system.

Hopefully anyone bothering to read this got the point of it all lol and is satisfied with the main fundamentals of the current scoring. Smaller things can always be changed if someone has good ideas, but to totally change how it works at this point is not a good idea because these are clearly not as good scorings imo.
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Postby S.Williamz » 02 Jul 2008, 03:40

Also I wanna add that I think Togtdaylttai had some possibly really good ideas so I'm gonna think them out and see if they could work in some form or another. Meaning maybe having some sets wins could have slightly more meaning even if you have a losing h2h...I don't think it is at all crucial or anything as I have pretty much stated in the previous post, the meaning is big even without direct points given, the ranking prolly turn out same anyhow, but if something could be thought that doesn't mess up things in general it could be tried... :lol:
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