Playing on 'Master' - 79 shot rallies

General discussions about the version 2006 of Tennis Elbow

Playing on 'Master' - 79 shot rallies

Postby Drozdov » 01 Jul 2007, 15:56

Ergh, playing on Master is such hard work. Just had a 79 shot rally... what a grind! Really the points should be shorter, even if it was on clay, the computer on master is so hard to get past. This was against a 'Defender' player (David Ferrer), who ought to be weaker at the net, yet most of those 79 shots were attempts by me to make passing shots past him or over him. You really need to have outrageous defensive skills for Master... anyone got some advice on how to shorten the points? Doing drop shots all the time works on shortening the points but it's pretty 50/50 as to who wins the point after the CPU gets the drop shot.
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Re: Playing on 'Master' - 79 shot rallies

Postby stuey » 01 Jul 2007, 17:13

Drozdov wrote:anyone got some advice on how to shorten the points?


lose the point :lol:
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shortening points

Postby gofeddy » 01 Jul 2007, 17:22

yup, playing against defenders are really hard.
but one thing u can do is, while the cpu defender is on the baseline and as he makes a shot, try to run in immedietly towards the net and hit a forcefull volley on either corners.
it works most of the times if u have good anticipation of the direction of the cpu shot and ur quick.
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Postby Drozdov » 01 Jul 2007, 17:25

Oh I've tried that frequently. I find it has a negative affect upon my happiness and ability to win though. :evil:

The difference between Master and Pro is ridiculously huge - playing a 5 set final with Davydenko starting on Master, lost the first 2 sets 3-6 (lost my temper as well and my desk and hand are lucky to have survived intact). He made 1 unforced error over the 2 sets and was an almost un-passable wall at the net and never made an error on a volley even from drop shots and low balls, despite not being a great volley player. My only way reliable way of winning points was hitting winning returns from the serves he put down the middle. Fed up of that I changed the difficulty to Pro and won the 3 sets 6-0, 6-1, 6-1. So many games have nothing between too easy and too hard. :(

My suggestion would be to make the CPU much more beatable at the net in Master mode, their court coverage at the net even for Defender and Puncher players is ridiculous.
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Postby manutoo » 02 Jul 2007, 17:11

Hello,

you have 2 choices :
- master the acceleration and be able to send it almost always near the line, and use it only when you have actually a chance to win the point in 1 or 2 accelerations (don't forget to use the top spin strike when it's not good time for an acceleration)
- use the short shot, which can be quite effective against defenders coz they often are very far behind their baseline
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Postby Drozdov » 03 Jul 2007, 13:28

What's the top spin strike? Normal button 1 shot? None of them seem particularly top spinny to me.

Well I'm about as good at accelerations as the game allows you to be. The computer rarely gives you time to play them into the corners, it's quite rare to win the point with an acceleration when both players are on the baseline in a normal rally.

So my tactics are to use the short strike to bring the player in (or win the point outright if I get enough time to make the angle), then try accelerations from deep to pass the player. It works very well on Pro but on Master the computer's coverage of the net is almost perfect - once they're at the net, unless they're a bad volleyer, you're unlikely to win the point. They reach almost everything, the only thing to do is to run around frantically catching their volleys. Occasionally you can manage to lob them aggressively but usually they catch it. Best thing to do is throw up defensive lobs to get them back from the net and then hit acceleraton passing shots past them after they hit the smash, but against some players who make powerful smashes even that is almost impossible.

On Master the CPU's advantages are too much, they can make shots which the player physically cannot do because of the control system. It doesn't seem to matter to the computer where it is when it hits the shot, it doesn't need the time that the player does to make a big angled shot. For example they can hit accelerations to the opposite corner when they have only just reached the ball (this is very noticable when serving). They also react to everything instantly and are fast enough to chase most shots down. Also their drop shots are very different from the player's, and they have such ridiculous spin on drop shots they often spin at almost a 90 degree angle from where they landed, so are unplayable. They even make drop shot winners from overhead smashes! They cover the net much better than the player, even if they're only a defender or puncher and shouldn't be making such big jumps across the net.

I think the biggest problem of Tennis Elbow is there's virtually no such thing as a forced error. If the computer reaches the ball, then they can play a good shot regardless of how difficult the shot is. The only forced errors you can cause are from drop shots at the net - play a drop shot at the computer when he's already at the net and if it's low enough he often hits it into the net. Occasionally the computer mishits the ball completely for no apparent reason, but it happens very rarely. On Master the computer quite often doesn't make any unforced errors in a set. It's nothing like real tennis...
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Postby percy896 » 03 Jul 2007, 16:37

I know manutoo said he would fix this soon (so this might not be much help), but hitting drop shots is extremely effective against CPU's. simply because you know they will hit a drop shot back. If you can't volley their returning drop shot, lob it up, run back, and hopefully they will hit an overhead that you can reach, and you can go for the passing winner.

You're right, there is a huge difference between Pro and Master, but that's why there are different levels; for you to improve! Playing against humans actually will help you improve more than playing against CPU's. Once you start playing a lot against humans, Master won't seem imporssible anymore, just very difficult 8-) .
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Postby manutoo » 04 Jul 2007, 09:23

a quick word about the number of faults :
yup, in TE2006, in higher difficulty levels, there are not enough faults; I'll change that in TE2007, but it won't be same than in real tennis, coz there are just too much faults in real : in most matches, there are more faults than winners, and it wouldn't be exactly fun to play in a video game...

If for you Master is too high, and Pro is too easy, then you could try to raise the Pro difficulty, by lowering your skills in this mode (you can change the lowering rate in the Tennis.ini ).

Top spin = b1 + down ==> The more long time you press down, the more effect you'll get.

>> CPU can make shots which the player physically cannot do because of the control system

If it wasn't the case, it would look too unrealistic... ;)

The CPU is also a bit less likely to hit a good shot when he's running... It's not very noticeable, but it's the case.

If you don't have the latest version of TE2006, be sure to download it : I lowered a bit the jump speed of the CPU (and the human's one as well)

I also just tested the acceleration against Master CPU, and it's true it's too hard to do a successful one..!
So I'll lower the CPU reflexes a bit for the next update, on which I'll work after have finished to port TE2006 and TEM to Mac OSX (hopefully within 3 weeks)
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Postby Drozdov » 05 Jul 2007, 03:18

I do have the latest version, just seems to make me worse at the net. On Pro the decrease in jump distance was more noticable, making it easy to hit passing shots (my favourite way of winning points). On Master the computer's coverage of the net is almost flawless so a computer player with decent volley skills is extremely hard to beat. Glad to hear you're going to tweak the computer's reaction times, hopefully that will make him more fun to play.

My world tour player's skills aren't that high, the average is only 56.2. Maybe lowering that would make Pro more challenging... I'd rather make an increase to all CPU player stats though if that's possible (apart from editing them individually which would take forever). I suppose in many ways the result of playing in Master mode is realistic, you shouldn't be able to win every match against any opponent, and Master certainly stops that. It's the way it does it that frustrates me, though I suppose losing is usually frustrating. :P

I've never really found the lofted top spin shot that useful, it gives the computer a lot more time to hit a powerful shot at a comfortable height. Although it's not a bad defensive shot to give you time to get back into the rally. It does force the computer back behind the baseline but since the computer always has time to hit a hard shot it doesn't really advantage the player much, because you don't have the time to exploit the situation with a good short shot to the line.
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Postby Brad1981 » 05 Jul 2007, 04:29

I would just like to add that I think it would be neat to have a fair mode/free mode option when playing against the CPU, just like it is for online play. And one could switch the mode in one of the options screens.
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Postby manutoo » 06 Aug 2007, 07:24

Hello Drozdov,

could you download the latest version of the game ?
I added a bit of delay to the master level... (especially when you make him run)
I'd like to know if it's enough or not..?
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