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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby Alen » 05 Mar 2012, 17:03

manutoo wrote:Florian & vamos rafa & Ap3,
are you ok with the changes done to the counter style ? My goal was to make the counter steps back about 30-40cm in average (or lose some precision if he doesn't step back).
Hopefully, that should be more balanced against other styles, but if you think otherwise, let me know..!


Yup Manu its ok, but I do more UE with this new version, (the previous versions was better :mrgreen: ) but no problem...us who play with this style are very "flexible" we will get used to these small-large changes :roll:

I think that this style is fair coz it has many advantages but also has many disadvantages :roll:

Stan if you want to beat a counter you can play against me :sweat:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby vamos rafa » 05 Mar 2012, 17:50

manutoo wrote:Florian & vamos rafa & Ap3,
are you ok with the changes done to the counter style ? My goal was to make the counter steps back about 30-40cm in average (or lose some precision if he doesn't step back).
Hopefully, that should be more balanced against other styles, but if you think otherwise, let me know..!


Well although I wouldnt want this but if it stops a 24 yr old kid from crying and whining whole day, then why not, go ahead and gift him a candy. :roll: :dance:
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Last edited by vamos rafa on 05 Mar 2012, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby Stajus » 05 Mar 2012, 17:57

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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby The Potro » 05 Mar 2012, 21:32

manutoo wrote:- Gameplay : net clip on service won't lead to fault for too long ball anymore, or only rarely

what do you mean?
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby manutoo » 06 Mar 2012, 04:40

Serena Williams Fan,
you should take a course about network, router & firewall, coz u're in a trouble that is beyond my knowledge... ;)

Florian,
short acceleration speed is same for counters than all other styles. What you miss is the strong regular acceleration to do it DTL when the volleyer is far from the lane.

Stajus,
I don't think I'd win 1 rally even before to run out of accelerations... ;)
What could be more interesting is that I take the counter, you take the PB and you play without acceleration, if I could beat you like this, maybe it'd mean the PB is overpowered... :blackeye:

>> Florian, vamos rafa, Mohamed = counters :lol: Explains everything :whistle:

That explains they know what they're talking about while you don't..? :whistle:

spencercarlos,
I didn't change Defender's acceleration.
Defenders are same than other styles, except with less free accelerations & no jump bonus at net, but with enhanced topspin strikes.

The Potro,
since a couple of Build, clipping the net on serve was making the ball going too long ; now, it'll fall inside the serve square (except sometimes when serving wide), like before.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby Brad1981 » 06 Mar 2012, 08:17

Manu, since the last 2 builds, the CPU player slices way too much when moving from side to side during a rally.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby Stajus » 06 Mar 2012, 10:55

manutoo wrote:Stajus,
I don't think I'd win 1 rally even before to run out of accelerations... ;)
What could be more interesting is that I take the counter, you take the PB and you play without acceleration, if I could beat you like this, maybe it'd mean the PB is overpowered... :blackeye:

>> Florian, vamos rafa, Mohamed = counters :lol: Explains everything :whistle:

That explains they know what they're talking about while you don't..? :whistle:


That explains that they want an overpowered counter style :blackeye: And, you're wrong about the last thing, I've beaten all of them with counter in exhibitons before and won Montpellier by using counter during the whole tournament for the FIRST time ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ), what a lame style :unsure: :whistle: I'll tell you a nice story...my first ever set with counter vs Florian counter => 6-2 :lol: Though I think overall counter suits him more, that's not the point...the point is its advantages are lame. Let's see again:

1. Speed bonus of up to 7.5 kmh on fast incoming balls when using the normal or spin strike from their FEET. What? Nearly 10 kmh? Are you serious? :lol:

2. Their accelerations are in the range from 130-145 most of the time which is the exact same case with punchers/PBs :lol: You don't get too many 150s in a tough rally as a baseliner :wink: So, unlimited accelerations are completely unjustified as they ONLY really hit slower on putaway balloon balls where baseliners are able to hit 150s. I'll talk about slices below :lol:

3. They have a problem with slow balls? Really? :lol: If you give them slow slices they can hit a few short cross accelerations, and since the speed of players isn't like before that will eventually be a winner pretty easily as it becomes physically impossible to reach some of the angles with the turtle players :blackeye: So, SLOW BALLS against counters are ALSO USELESS :cool:

4. Counters have faster and possibly deeper returns than other styles, and if they hit the baseline and the opponent DOES NOT HAVE 100% counter, he/she cannot use the normal strike to defend that and has to slice => easy winner soon after that in most cases. On the contrary, when I hit a HUGE return on the baseline against someone like Florian, he uses his lame advantage from Point 1 above and even gains an ADVANTAGE in the point immediately even though I was the one who hit a HUGE return :whistle:

5. Why on Earth would counter players have a bigger jump than punchers LOL? Tsonga is a puncher and has a huge jump :whistle: Tell me one counter player that volleys better than Tsonga? Actually, why on Earth would anyone have a bigger jump than anyone (Nadal jumps fine at net and he's a defender)? Do you understand the volleying concept at all? :lol: The "jump" should depend only on the height of the players and not their style (and maybe on the agility, but we don't have such a stat so...) ;)

Let me know when you are able to understand the simple tennis concepts above, it could take a while it seems :applause:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby adner » 06 Mar 2012, 11:29

Stajus wrote:2. Their accelerations are in the range from 130-145 most of the time which is the exact same case with punchers/PBs :lol: You don't get too many 150s in a tough rally as a baseliner :wink: So, unlimited accelerations are completely unjustified as they ONLY really hit slower on putaway balloon balls where baseliners are able to hit 150s. I'll talk about slices below :lol:

It's simple, if you can't keep up with a counter(so someone with an acceleration speed disadvantage) in a rally then you shouldn't be winning those rallies. Power baseliners are able to hit more powerful accelerations and if you choose the right moment, you will probably hit a winner or get your opponent out of position. Counters do not have that opportunity and have to grind steadily.

Stajus wrote:3. They have a problem with slow balls? Really? :lol: If you give them slow slices they can hit a few short cross accelerations, and since the speed of players isn't like before that will eventually be a winner pretty easily as it becomes physically impossible to reach some of the angles with the turtle players :blackeye: So, SLOW BALLS against counters are ALSO USELESS :cool:

If you let your opponent hit a few precise shot accelerations in a row, you don't deserve to win a point. And it's not about having "problem" with slow balls, it's just that counter cannot hit a definite winner off a slow ball like a power baseliner could.

Stajus wrote:4. Counters have faster and possibly deeper returns than other styles, and if they hit the baseline and the opponent DOES NOT HAVE 100% counter, he/she cannot use the normal strike to defend that and has to slice => easy winner soon after that in most cases. On the contrary, when I hit a HUGE return on the baseline against someone like Florian, he uses his lame advantage from Point 1 above and even gains an ADVANTAGE in the point immediately even though I was the one who hit a HUGE return :whistle:

Two solutions:
a) put 100% in counter when facing a counter so that you can return those shots from the baseline
b) step back from baseline
Just to remind though, not all counters are Florian and if you think that all good power baseliners should be able to keep up with an outstanding counter's returns, then it's simply ridiculous. It's same case with other points made here(not only by you): not all volleyers are dr. ivo, not all defenders are Voja.

Stajus wrote:5. Why on Earth would counter players have a bigger jump than punchers LOL? Tsonga is a puncher and has a huge jump :whistle: Tell me one counter player that volleys better than Tsonga? Actually, why on Earth would anyone have a bigger jump than anyone (Nadal jumps fine at net and he's a defender)? Do you understand the volleying concept at all? :lol: The "jump" should depend only on the height of the players and not their style ;)

Agreed, taller players should have lower running speed and some net jumping bonus.

Oh, and another thing: it takes much more skill to be a good counter than to be a power baseliner. Taking the ball early might seem easy when you look at the best players(including you), but in general it takes a lot of practice.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby Stajus » 06 Mar 2012, 12:14

adner = counter (at least in Memphis vs me) :lol:

Any other counter has something to add? :lol:

Manutoo, simply look at the increase in the number of counters and get a clue - there used to be 2 counters and now there are 10s of them after a few months :whistle: I wonder why :cool: Even one of the counters, Mohamed, said last night that puncher "sucks"...I use puncher and am still able to beat these guys :lol: Get a clue man :annoyed:
Last edited by Stajus on 06 Mar 2012, 12:20, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby adner » 06 Mar 2012, 12:17

Since this new update I cannot play with any style, so it doesn't matter much :lol:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby tonigno » 06 Mar 2012, 15:53

Hi Manutoo. With the new Build 82 I can not open the game in fullscreen mode (only window mode). Solutions? Thanks
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby Mohamed » 06 Mar 2012, 16:23

Stajus wrote: Even one of the counters, Mohamed, said last night that puncher "sucks"...I use puncher and am still able to beat these guys :lol: Get a clue man :annoyed:

I said puncher sucks cuz I can't use it, however I won Buenos Aires last week using a PowerBaseliner profile..
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby AndyRoddick » 06 Mar 2012, 19:51

How is it with injury in the game? I noticed there is a file in install where are discribed types of injuries and so. But I never experienced one in match or never had a situation where my opponent was injured and cant play. It is possible to be injured or have a injured opponent at all?
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby Maxy » 06 Mar 2012, 20:29

AndyRoddick wrote:How is it with injury in the game? I noticed there is a file in install where are discribed types of injuries and so. But I never experienced one in match or never had a situation where my opponent was injured and cant play. It is possible to be injured or have a injured opponent at all?

I think that's possible only in TE M.. :unsure:
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Re: Tennis Elbow 2011 v1.0d

Postby manutoo » 07 Mar 2012, 06:35

Brad1981,
are you lowering player speed using MtRun ? If so, you should raise it back a bit.

Stajus,
jump speed is more determined by speed & net presence skills than by the jump bonus depending of style (except for the volleyer where it's equivalent of 100% in both skills).
I could replace the jump speed bonus by a ball difficulty modifier during the jump, but that would be harder for me to tune it effectively, and harder for the players to feel how the bonus works. So I think the current mechanism is nice enough while not creating anything utterly unrealistic (ie: nothing like over speedy players).
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