Suggestion for improvement for future versions

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Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby lreese » 06 Sep 2011, 11:01

Hi,

First let me thank you for a great game. I'm rather new so forgive me if this has been suggested a thousand times before (couldn't find anything, though, using the search).

I have an injury in my arm so I can't play the game right now since it hurts when using the controller (ironically, it's tennis elbow!). So I'm running CPU vs. CPU instead and just watching. Yes, the game is so good, even this is interesting!

In doing this I noticed that cpu vollyers have a really hard time defeating cpu defenders (i.e., Edberg vs Muster etc). There seems to be an imbalance here. All tennis games I've ever played has had some imbalance that makes volleyers weaker than defenders. This game is the best I've seen, but there's still a slight problem, at least with tiredness on.

The problem:
After a set and a half the volleyer is so tired he can't break the defenders serve anymore. The reason I think, is because the volleyers don't attack that much when not serving. The just engage in long rallys which tires them out. In real life I'm a serve and volleyer. I know this tactic inside out so I thought I'd share some knowledge. So, in this situation, a real volleyer would try to shorten points by attacking much more, even on slow surfaces.

I realize, of course, that the volleyers were designed with a human opponet in mind, nit cpu vs. cpu. But still, the volleyers are easier to beat than defenders, for a human as well.

Solution:
a) have the volleyer attack more when they're not serving. In rallys and directly off service returns (so called "chip and charge")
b) also, I've noticed that when they do attack they do so with a drive stroke. A real volleyer would use a slice on the backhand side most of the time (but a drive on the forehand side). The slice is slower and lets the volleyer come closer to the net for the volley.
c) The volleyers also seems to hit an awful lot of volleyes right back to the opponent and into the middle of the court, even easy ones they should've put away. Have them put these away.
d) Finally the courts seem very slow. In the 1990s, when serve and volley was still played extensively the courts were faster. Perhaps faster courts if the player chooses to play in the 1990s?
e) The volleyer doesn't seem to have the same speed bonus when approaching the net behind a ground stroke as he has after a serve. He is often caught in no mans land and has to back up to the baseline again.

Hope this was useful.

BTW, if there's any way I can mod this my self, let me know.

/LR
lreese
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby lreese » 06 Sep 2011, 18:48

Actually, I just figured out that you fix a lot of this by just slowing the game down. mtrun set an 0.7 defininetly favors the volleyers. At this level and Pro1 difficulty the tennis looks an awful lot like real tennis to me. Good mix between rallies and quick winners, a reasonable amount of forced and unforced errors. Amazing! But of course, the volleyers still don't chip and charge.
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby manutoo » 07 Sep 2011, 14:46

Hello,

what level do you make them play ? Pro-10 is the most realistic one, so CPU vs CPU matches should be played at such level.

a-b) Volleyers were supposed to chip & charge, but it was badly tuned so it (almost) never triggered. It'll be better tuned for next update, so it'll happen sometimes.
c) I also slightly increased CPU strength at net, in part by lowering the number of volleys done to the center
d) Grass & Indoor carpet are faster than current real life ones ; other ones should be more or less same than current ones
e) yup, there was an extra delay that shouldn't be here... :sweat: It'll be fixed for next update
ManuTOO
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby lreese » 07 Sep 2011, 19:18

Thank you for that answer

a-b) part of the reason they are caught in no mans land (besides not having the speed bonus) is in fact that they do approach on a drive with shot acceleration. Every serve and volleyer knows that's begging to get passed. Nice to see you are working on it.
c) so they approximate a typical 90s indoor/grass court then?

Even with these flaws, TE 2011 is still the best tennis game AI I've seen. By a long shot. Congrats. Great effort!

BTW I said above slowing it down to mtrun 0.7. I meant 0.8(ish). Typo. 0.7 is way too slow
lreese
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby lreese » 07 Sep 2011, 19:29

About playlevel, I actually find PRO1-5 more realistic. PRO10 players are just too good. There are almost no errors, forced or unforced, on that level. I agree that pros can play that well sometimes (i.e., Federer at his very best). But most of the time there's a lot more errors than that. Perhaps a matter of opinion.
lreese
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby lreese » 07 Sep 2011, 20:37

Another thing, if you in the future put in more playable years in the 1980s I'll be willing to pay 4 times as much money for a licence! :-D
lreese
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby manutoo » 08 Sep 2011, 09:17

c) Yup, I think so...

I'll keep in mind your comments : in the future, I might try to improve the CPU vs CPU matches, so I'll try different things to see what gives the most realistic results..!
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby The Potro » 09 Sep 2011, 17:45

this is my thoughts :)

1. its unrealisticly difficult to pass someone who has very high volley stats.
2. why cant i change stroke style during season?
3. implement slice skills. federer has best slices :)
4. make return motion styles.
5. when playing rafa (power baseliner) vs federer (puncher) on grass, rafa moves to the net to often, he almost never do that.
6. implement return skills. djokovic has best returns :)
7. implement court violation when throwing racket.
7. also time violation when serving slow.

warning --> point penalty
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby lreese » 09 Sep 2011, 22:50

Vistascape, slow down the player movement a little bit (CPU and yourself!). Then passing shot and various other winners is quite possible. And it is really difficult to pass someone who's really good at the net in real tennis. Pros get passed all the time today because they completely suck at netplay, IMHO.
lreese
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby lreese » 09 Sep 2011, 23:44

manutoo, the new volleyers are spectactular. The chip and charge looks soooo cool!
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby kersou » 10 Sep 2011, 00:03

lreese wrote:manutoo, the new volleyers are spectactular. The chip and charge looks soooo cool!

right!
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Re: Suggestion for improvement for future versions

Postby The Potro » 13 Sep 2011, 22:19

it should be possible to save exhibition matches and play later like career matches.
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