Counter style...

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Counter style...

Postby S.Williamz » 11 Jul 2011, 22:20

I think the counter style(counter style+about 100% in counter) may be slightly too good compared to some others styles...not by much but I think it could use some balancing.

Firstly because you can take the ball quite early, you will not lose that much power compared to "power baseliner" style for example, on top of this you don't hit errors and you have unlimited accelerations. This alone I think is too good

Also what might be unbalanced is the fact that as counter you don't need stamina, so you can use that huge amount of points to other skills without losing any advantage. For example you can have great lob, great dropshot and great volleys, powerful baseline game and serve all at the same time.

I think there needs to be more cons to this style
Last edited by S.Williamz on 11 Jul 2011, 22:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Ptifilou018 » 11 Jul 2011, 22:47

you're right
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Serena Williams » 12 Jul 2011, 01:32

Temmy and his words of wisdom :jap:
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Mr.Schmith » 12 Jul 2011, 01:54

temes as much as some of this is right then some of it is untrue, you lose a lot of power and you're forced to hit put aways with no speed at all and on clay or newline synethic it is pretty much pointless to be really offensive. On grass or the other fast surfaces in some way it is really good but when you take the ball early you still lose like 7km a shot when you're hitting it hard and that should pretty much make up for the fact. I'm a counter and it may seem a little cheesy for me to defend it but there are other stuff that needs attention before this since it is pretty fine when you look at the facts
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Re: Counter style...

Postby S.Williamz » 12 Jul 2011, 03:44

Well a simple fix would be simply to not have the accelerations unlimited with counter style... The loss of speed is true but you can take the balls early which gives you a lot of ability to move the opponent around and neutralize their game. The shots are simply too good to be unlimited. If they were quite a bit weaker I could understand them being unlimited. There could be a few more accelerations than other play styles but not unlimited.

This would also force a counter to place points in stamina which would take care of the ton of extra points. Seemingly this wouldn't make counter style weak either, just make it more in tune with other styles.

Another idea could be to give the counters a very limited amount of regular, normal powered accelerations that they could use to surprise the opponent, and alongside that other kind of unlimited accelerations, that are a lot weaker, not quite as weak as the normal strikes but not as good as now.

Just some ideas don't know if they're bad or good...there might be better ways, in any case as I said I feel there are too many pros and too few cons to this style...
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Maxy » 12 Jul 2011, 03:51

Can I set stamina on 0%? It'll be the same? :jap:
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Re: Counter style...

Postby manutoo » 12 Jul 2011, 06:31

Not being able to strike a full speed acceleration at will is a big big big malus, being worth of the counter bonuses. Also, it's way harder for the counter to find the best distance from the ball bounce ; too far, and his strikes are too weak, too close, and he'll lose control of the ball.

And the 0% stamina problem is solved when playing with Tiredness on... :whistle:
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Re: Counter style...

Postby S.Williamz » 12 Jul 2011, 12:50

Manutoo I think you know by now I talk from the perspective of playing online and fair mode...because that's what the majority(of advanced players) plays. Tiredness is not that much fun because you get tired naturally focusing on the returns etc. which is much more fun no need for added confusion with artificial tiredness.

You need to play more online to understand the problems with the counter style. I've tried it all about billion times lol. Nothing is ever the same against a computer player.

And it is not hard to avoid errors with counter style.

Again I'm not asking for major tweaks because the situation isn't bad, the advantages are only seen when two good players play. I think overall the all the counter bonuses go over what some other play styles have so there's a need for some balancing.

If nothing is changed it is not the end of the world I will simply switch to playing the counter style myself no need to suffer with other styles. lol
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Serena Williams » 12 Jul 2011, 13:04

S.Williamz wrote:Manutoo I think you know by now I talk from the perspective of playing online and fair mode...because that's what the majority(of advanced players) plays. Tiredness is not that much fun because you get tired naturally focusing on the returns etc. which is much more fun no need for added confusion with artificial tiredness.

You need to play more online to understand the problems with the counter style. I've tried it all about billion times lol. Nothing is ever the same against a computer player.

And it is not hard to avoid errors with counter style.

Again I'm not asking for major tweaks because the situation isn't bad, the advantages are only seen when two good players play. I think overall the all the counter bonuses go over what some other play styles have so there's a need for some balancing.

If nothing is changed it is not the end of the world I will simply switch to playing the counter style myself no need to suffer with other styles. lol

Perhaps the number of accelerations should be limited but i partially agree with most of this post
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Mr.Schmith » 12 Jul 2011, 15:12

giving an ammount of accels will just ruin the style, I've many times been forced to hit winners between 129-136km and every good mover can reach that. If you decrease their effect on a fast surface then you're going to decrease them on slower surfaces where they're horrible so. Have in mind that they're not great on every surface just like defender gets a huge bonus on clay which isn't so effective on faster surfaces
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Re: Counter style...

Postby S.Williamz » 12 Jul 2011, 15:36

If counter is horrible on slow surfaces then is power baseliners etc. too. Even more so actually. You run quickly out of accelerations on clay and the point still goes on, except counters have unlimited accelerations. Why should the counter stay dominant forever and the power baseliners for 10 secs?
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Mr.Schmith » 12 Jul 2011, 15:49

look at the chance of hitting a winner with 150km shots or weak as 135 or less. Running out of accels is poor but if you limit the counter aswelI don't really see how you can even think of that when they're basically as weak as their none accels
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Re: Counter style...

Postby S.Williamz » 12 Jul 2011, 15:56

As I pointed out before the counter takes the ball early which makes up for the loss of speed quite a bit, second I suggested that the counter could have a few more accelerations than other styles, but there's absolutely no reason for unlimited accelerations. If you can make a power baseliner run out of accelerations, that is great but you shouldn't be able to push them around the court endlessly after that, at most for a few shots then it should be equal.
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Mohamed » 12 Jul 2011, 15:59

I tried to use counter style today , some really nice returns about 159-160 Km but when i put 0% at stamina and hit a short ball my player gets tired in the 2nd shot which force me to play normal shots after that. (this happens at net too when i use fire1+2).
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Re: Counter style...

Postby Mr.Schmith » 12 Jul 2011, 16:08

-.- you can't take the ball early on clay / newline synethic when spin shots are involved, even with 0 spin and slices are pretty damn rough to hit through aswell. The power baseliner should just use the accels more carefully which some players do and they're fine. No player can keep defending everything they throw at them even the best defenders have been pushed by power baseliners on their favorite surfaces and defenders get a spin bonus / speed bonus so I don't really see the problem.
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