About tiredness

General discussions about the 3rd edition of Tennis Elbow

About tiredness

Postby Brecht » 19 Jun 2010, 20:52

Hello, I would like to know your opinion about tiredness in the game (for those who use it).
First, there are already some remarks and explanations here: http://www.managames.com/Forum/topic15-3317.php.

And for the sake of readability (if there is such a word in English?), here are Manu's explanations:
To All,
ok, I guess it's time I provide some explanation about how tiredness works.
There are 2 bars :
Top one = Instant Energy
Bottom one = Overall Energy
(better English term propositions are welcome ; I'm scratching my head to not use "Short Term Form / Long Term Form", coz actually, the "Overall Energy" = "Short Term Form" of TEM)
The Instant Energy goes down & up quite quickly ; the Overall Energy goes down a lot less quickly & up even less quickly.
The Instant Energy can't go up higher than the current level of the Overall Energy.

You lose energy when :
- you run ; the more you Speed is above your Stamina, the quicker you lose energy ; the more you Stamina is above your Speed, the slower you lose energy ; so running at full speed with 100% in both Stamina & Speed makes you lose energy at the same rate than running at full speed with 0% in both skills ; the faster you run, the quicker you lose energy
- you strike acceleration ; the higher your Stamina is, the less energy you lose when doing accelerations ; if you have a playing style that gives a number of acceleration bonus (example: Power Baseliner) then you get a bit less tired from doing acceleration
- you do a normal strike : but very very less tiring than doing acceleration

The more your Instant Energy bar goes under 20%, the more :
- you lose precision on your strikes, especially accelerations
- you lose power on your acceleration, but not on any other strikes
- your max run speed lowers & your run acceleration lowers

The more your Overall Energy bar goes under 50% :
- you lose a bit of precision on your strikes
- your max run speed lowers & your run acceleration lowers

You get back energy :
- a bit after each point
- a bit more at each change of ends

When your Instant Energy is below 25%, then you get some back during rally if you stand still. (it goes up very slowly)

Patch 3 released :
- added "Overall Energy bar goes under 50%" rules
- a bit less precision lost when Instant Energy is low

So globally, you lose a lot more leg work than arm work, as your power on normal strikes isn't modified at all.
When you're at 0% of Instant Energy, you lose 15% of Max Run Speed & 10% of Run Acceleration ; this about same than going down to 70% from 100% in Speed skill.
With Patch 3, you can now lose up to 25% Max Run Speed & 20% of Run Acceleration when both Instant Energy & Overall Energy are at 0%. This might be a bit extreme, so comments are welcome, like usually... :)

One last note : Instant Energy can go under 0% (increasing even more the tiredness effects), but there's no visible effect on the GUI bar ; and Overall Energy can't go under 0%. But at each beginning of points, your Instant Energy is at least 0%.

I'm playing the WTA World Tour. I assume tiredness is affecting the female players more than the men (see topic above).

I didn't encounter any problem with tiredness (so far) on fast surfaces. But there comes clay (a nightmare anyway to many TE player I assume, including me :fear: ).
I played two challengers, one setters, on green clay, against defenders, both ended with 7/5. Speed and Stamina at 69%, all rounder. My opponents were approximatively as strong as I.
After 7 or 8 games, both instant and overall energy were near to 0% (for me and my opponent); we both were slower (but could reach almost every ball); had lost the possibility to hit accelerations (only with "smoke"); and above all, we (at least I) had lost so much precision that my only concern was not to do any unforced error, I had aiming on and the court (and its surroundings...) was a big green circle most of the time.

I think that
1. the loss of energy comes much too early and
2. precision shouldn't be affected that much (I mean for normal shots).
The rest seems fine to me so far.

What do you think?

Besides, there has already been a discussion about the impact of the number of games/sets and the increasing of tiredness.
Manu's aim was that gamers who play one-setters or few games in a set should feel the tiredness.
Here's the quote:
But about the goal, it's not much about to simulate the tiredness over the match. Most tennis players can go in a 5-setter without being noticeable tired, except on clay. And in real life, most matches are played in 2 or 3 sets anyway.
In game, personally, I play in 1-set. Another example, I think Algo play in best of 3 sets but with only 3 or 4 games per set. Thus, my educated guess is the tiredness over the match is pretty irrelevant for most TE users, most of the time.
What is pertinent though is the tiredness over the few points. This one can touch all TE users, all the time. This is the main goal of the Tiredness system (although, if u play long time, u'll see the Tiredness over the match is simulated as well, but it's secondary :) ).

My point is precisely that I do like to play some best of three sets matches, and that I don't see why I should reduce the number of games in them. That is one of the features I like in TE. And tiredness is IMO an interesting feature that brings variety and more strategy to the game.
But if my player has no fuel in the tank after 8 games - and my opponent neither, the second set will be a nightmare to play.

Again, what do you think?
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