Forced Errors

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Forced Errors

Postby Togtdyalttai » 18 Sep 2009, 20:21

I finally found something to prove my point! Here's a scoreboard from Karlovic-Stepanek which includes forced errors. I hope you will take this into consideration, Manu, and change the statistics of TE matches.
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2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Serena Williams » 18 Sep 2009, 22:36

good point tog,manu might consider addibg this to TE in the match statistics :yes: :yes: :applause: :applause:
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Santiago92 » 18 Sep 2009, 23:33

78 aces for Ivo :o
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby that_dood » 19 Sep 2009, 07:53

This shot where the ball hits the side of the racquet and is counted as a winner is really annoying me know. Surely if you are not going to have it as an error (Or A forced error), it should never be a winner.
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Togtdyalttai » 19 Sep 2009, 07:55

that_dood wrote:This shot where the ball hits the side of the racquet and is counted as a winner is really annoying me know. Surely if you are not going to have it as an error (Or A forced error), it should never be a winner.


You can partially blame me for that. Manu doesn't (hopefully didn't after this :thinking: ) believe in forced errors so when I asked him to not count those shots as unforced errors he changed it to counting them as winners. But they should definitely be forced errors (except on the serve of course, he has that right now).
#1
2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby that_dood » 19 Sep 2009, 10:29

Togtdyalttai wrote:You can partially blame me for that. Manu doesn't (hopefully didn't after this :thinking: ) believe in forced errors so when I asked him to not count those shots as unforced errors he changed it to counting them as winners. But they should definitely be forced errors (except on the serve of course, he has that right now).


I also had a whinge which didn't help... :cry:

But I can accept it being an error even if it isn't really. But it can't be a winner. That is just ludicrous.
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby manutoo » 21 Sep 2009, 04:10

Togtdyalttai, this doesn't prove anything. It just shows that UE & FE can be counted apart of each other. It doesn't tell what is a Winner, a UE & a FE. It doesn't tell how the Winners & UE are counted when the stats don't include FE.
But I had a look at a couple of games during an US Open Match while keeping an eye on the real time stats on the US Open website ; the stats were only Aces, DF, Winners & UE. Some errors were clearly not counted as either Winners nor UE, so it's pretty safe to assume that FE are kept out of the stats (which is rather stupid IMHO :roll: ).
But unfortunately, during these 2 games, there was no ball that just clipped the racket and went in direction of the crowd, so I still don't know for sure if they are counted as winner or not. So, so far, only the quote I posted a couple of weeks ago stands... :blackeye:
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Togtdyalttai » 21 Sep 2009, 04:46

Wow, I thought that would be enough. For any tennis expert, a winner (not including service winners) is a shot that you don't hit at all. A shot that you get your racquet on but only just would then have to be called a forced error; it's the only option.
#1
2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby that_dood » 21 Sep 2009, 08:27

^^^

A winner does not hit the raquet of the opponent. Which means the clipped raquet shot is not a winner. The error collum is probably the best place to put it I reckon after playing like this for awhile now.
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Togtdyalttai » 21 Sep 2009, 20:21

You can't really put it in the error column because when most people think of errors they think of unforced errors. That shot isn't unforced at all. The errors should be split up and forced errors shouldn't necessarily be included in the stats (because they often aren't in real life), and those shots should be counted as forced errors.
#1
2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
User avatar
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby that_dood » 22 Sep 2009, 11:04

Togtdyalttai wrote:You can't really put it in the error column because when most people think of errors they think of unforced errors. That shot isn't unforced at all. The errors should be split up and forced errors shouldn't necessarily be included in the stats (because they often aren't in real life), and those shots should be counted as forced errors.


Ideally it is in neither column. But if it has to be in there like Manuu wants I would rather it be an error. At the moment it is really frustrating that it counts as a winner.
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Togtdyalttai » 22 Sep 2009, 19:40

that_dood wrote:Ideally it is in neither column. But if it has to be in there like Manuu wants I would rather it be an error. At the moment it is really frustrating that it counts as a winner.


I would rather have it be an error than a winner as well. That said, I'd like to see unforced errors separated from forced errors.
#1
2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
User avatar
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Serena Williams » 18 Oct 2009, 21:51

so would i tog
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Re: Forced Errors

Postby Togtdyalttai » 19 Oct 2009, 04:14

Thanks for reviving this topic, Viktor. :D Can you please do something about this problem, Manu? I know it can't be too difficult, as you made a quick update to it a few weeks ago.
#1
2010 Singles: 66-10 (no wo (4))
2010 Doubles: 21-11
2009 Singles: 105-14 (no WO (6))
2009 Doubles: 11-8
Best Results:
'10: W: AO, Miami, Casa, Barca, Rome, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Cincy
'09: W: 13 including Rome, Madrid, RG, Wimby, Cincy, USO
User avatar
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Location: USA

Re: Forced Errors

Postby TTennisfan » 21 Oct 2009, 02:46

nice graphic
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S.F: Newport,

Record 2008: 44-13
Best result (08):
F:Rome, Roland Garros, Bangkok, Vienna, Madrid, Shanghai
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