Computer Player Issues

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Computer Player Issues

Postby SDAWG » 29 Apr 2015, 16:57

I just realized a few frustrating things about computer play.

1) Every error a computer player makes is an unforced error. There is no such thing as a forced error. This is highly frustrating as during the important points almost every computer player becomes the stalwart of consistency and it's even worse among low rank players than it is the high ranked players. It's also frustrating because unless you are a power player, you will see every strategic advantage you give yourself returned and outdone. It's frustrating to see the computer player hit a short ball as they are out of position only to smack the next out of position as hard as possible to hit an impossible cross court deep winner. It's okay if that were the exception and not the rule. Never have I seen my opponent hit a forced error from being put in a bad position.

2) All computer player power shots seem to have the same velocity! It doesn't matter if I am playing Lindsay Davenport, Jie Zheng, or Conchita Martinez. When they load up on the power they all fly past with the same velocity. Some of this may have to deal with the play style of my player, but it's frustrating to see someone with 40% power all of sudden hit returns that fly past me the same way someone with 100% power does.

3) Computer players can hit deep shots and I can't! This is incredibly frustrating especially as a counter puncher who uses ball placement to set up points! Every time I feel like I have the upper hand the computer player seems to hit an incredibly hard deep shot and because I am inside the court usually due to the previous weak short ball I lose. Again, I am okay with this happening every so often but again ALL the time. And why is it that they can hit these type of shots and I can't?

4) Do slow players exist on this game? Almost every player chases down everything! I know my player doesn't hit with a lot of power but even when I am playing inside of the court and hitting side to side or short angles, my opponent gets to everything. Perhaps the only two players that don't are Monica Seles and Lindsay Davenport and even they get a ton of balls back.

I love this game, but I do think there are some huge imbalances when it comes to the way the computer plays. I mean I just played a player who had a 45% power rating on the backhand and mine is 60% and yet this player was hitting much harder and aggressive backhands than I could even manage. I'm playing on Pro Level which isn't supposed to create those imbalances.
SDAWG
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby percy896 » 29 Apr 2015, 17:57

SDAWG,

1. Most CPU errors are unforced errors, but if you hit a really tough shot (especially when they are on the run) they can make a forced error, even on the incredible level. It's true that most CPU players seem to play better on very important points, and sometimes hit more miss-hits and short balls, but sometimes the challenge can be fun, right?

2. This isn't necessarily true. It may seem that way because of the contrast in their normal balls vs perfect balls, but definitely those with more power hit hard on average. Also, the Precision skill is very important in this. A CPU with a bit less power but much higher precision will hit more great shots than one with more power but not as high precision.

3. The computer positions itself automatically (because it's a computer and not a person), so on the highest levels you'd expect them to be in bette position than you consistently and therefore hit better/deeper shots. On lower levels the computer doesn't hit as deep on a regular basis.

4. On high levels, like incredible, the movement is very good on most players, but there is definitely a difference in movement. I find players with 80% speed and higher much, much tougher than even more powerful players with a lower speed skill. If you are having a bit of trouble hitting winners and think you won't be able to improve much more, a good idea is to lower the speed slightly for your computer opponents, or drop their level by 1 sublevel. I find, especially in incredible, that even 1 sublevel can be the difference between being able to beat the #10 player and losing to the #100 player.

Hope that helped a bit.
-percy896
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby SDAWG » 29 Apr 2015, 18:11

1. Well I must rarely hit tough shots because the only shot they ever make a forced error on is a wide serve lol. I love the challenge. I have lost many a match and thought the computer was just too good. However, it's a total different feeling whenever you play and clearly see the computer is being out maneuvered and you keep losing point after point.

2. I'm not speaking of their average pace. I am speaking of the general force of their hard strokes. Whenever, the computer goes for the kill shot, they are almost always effective, while on the flip side, in the most advantageous situations, I can go for a kill shot and the AI gets it back almost effortlessly or hits a crosscourt SLICE winner lol.

3. The deep shots I am speaking of are almost always hit when the computer is OUT of position or on the defensive. I can deal somewhat with the short dinkers but these booming deep shots happen too often especially for the lower ranked players. I would expect more of these shots from Serena Williams but get them from Anna Smashnova! Which is another perplexing things. Successful power players are often much more easier to beat than these unknowns.

4. I was speaking of movement without the mods. I think if on average everyone is a great mover that should be fixed. Since this game goes for more realism, I should see chokers, forced errors, slow movers, etc. Everyone becomes god like and it is slightly annoying. That being said. I do love this game and think it's the best thing out there. So I am not complaining with a heavy heart. I'm just pointing things out.
SDAWG
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Messages: 55
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby percy896 » 29 Apr 2015, 18:20

SDAWG,
I see what you're saying, and it definitely is true that the CPU can sometimes make ridiculously good gets with much depth and great placement. I have also always found the defender style to be more difficult to beat than the others (with the exception of counter which is by far the hardest to beat). Unfortunately right now there is no mental aspect to the CPU in-game. They cannot change, or "choke" based on any mental skills they are given. I imagine in the future Manutoo might add this mental feature (it would definitely be great!).

I think one of the things about this game is the subtle differences in player ability, which is actually what makes it fairly realistic. If the level of the CPU is too much higher than yours, it seems there's basically no difference between their levels, and they all can play at such a high level. When you've found your sweet spot in ability vs a certain CPU level, then you really can see the differences between good and less-good CPUs. The difference between CPU skills at 50% and 70% seem massive. If you're too good or too bad for the CPU sublevel you're playing at, these differences don't really show. This is just like in real tennis!

Have a nice day :)
Percy
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby manutoo » 30 Apr 2015, 10:07

SDAWG,

0) what difficulty level are you playing with ?

1) great accelerations lead to forced errors, at least sometimes, but maybe only very rarely against Incredible CPU

2) Turn on the Strike Speed in "In Game menu -> Options" if you want to see the actual ball speed ; 40% & 100% lead to important speed changes, except if the 40% belongs to a counter style player, in that case, the most important skill is Counter to get fast ball

3) often deep shot = last instant strike ; this kind of strike can end short or long or out, it's random ; you'll notice a lot more the long ones because they annoy you the most ; you can hit these shots as well, same rules apply than for the CPU
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby SDAWG » 30 Apr 2015, 14:56

Percy,
I'm not expecting them to really "choke" but it is frustrating to see the counter all the time. I can play a game against a player and they make ridiculous errors up until 40-0. Suddenly, all they hit are winners or they never make any more mistakes until they win the whole game! The exact opposite happens to my player especially on serve. Suddenly, on the big points, my player can't find a first serve to save her life LOL!!! So if there is something that makes them play the big points better (or at least it feels like there is) then the counter should exist too. I mean I expect Steffi Graf to hit a big serve or forehand on a big point but not Anna Smashnova lol (Yes I'm picking on her because she hits the biggest shots lol).

My frustration comes from the CPU level. There are players where I look at the stats and think I have no chance and I will beat them easily. Yet when I play more mid ranked players I struggle mightly or lose lol. I'm 24-5 against Serena, Venus, Lindsay, and Monica combined and they are four of the greatest players of all time! Conversely, I'm 5-12 against Zvonareva, Smashnova, Schnyder, Suarez, and Hantuchova all of whom have never won a slam! Zvonareva doesn't even have a backhand right now and I try to expose the weakness but even when she is on the run, it always somehow turns into her advantage. Despite Venus, Serena, and Lindsay being better power players, Smashnova is the one that seems like power supreme. Idk maybe that's where I'm messing up. I accept that it's really tough to beat Justine, Kim, Jennifer, Amelie, etc. But Smashnova? (LOL!) Are the lower ranked players randomly assigned point values? I mean right now Serena's power is about 96% and Venus is about 94% but Smashnova is 100 LOL!
SDAWG
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby SDAWG » 30 Apr 2015, 15:02

manutoo wrote:SDAWG,

0) what difficulty level are you playing with ?

1) great accelerations lead to forced errors, at least sometimes, but maybe only very rarely against Incredible CPU

2) Turn on the Strike Speed in "In Game menu -> Options" if you want to see the actual ball speed ; 40% & 100% lead to important speed changes, except if the 40% belongs to a counter style player, in that case, the most important skill is Counter to get fast ball

3) often deep shot = last instant strike ; this kind of strike can end short or long or out, it's random ; you'll notice a lot more the long ones because they annoy you the most ; you can hit these shots as well, same rules apply than for the CPU


Manutoo

0) Pro Level

1) None of my accelerations lead to forced errors. The computer goes scampering off and hits a short shot that I think I am in position to take advantage of. I hit it to the open court and they run and get it and almost always hit a winner with some type of seemingly impossible shot.

2) I will check the whole counter thing. Maybe I don't know how to play with a counter well because that's my character lol. Everyone just seems like they can blast a ball past me at any time.

3) It's not annoying that they are deep. It's annoying that they are never out! They almost always either land short or hit the baseline/sideline. They never hit the net or go long. So because I take the ball early or play inside the court, these desperate shots always pass me by. I can't play deep in the back court because my player doesn't have enough power so they simply smack my shots for winners lol.

I'm not saying I should be winning all the time or hitting winners all the time. I just feel like if you are not a power player it's that much more difficult to win because a) you're not going to win by "forcing" your opponents to make errors with good placement etc. and b) you can't wait for them to make an error because they never will!!! Even when you run their stamina down. When I make power players I win all the time lol. I tried a different style for a challenge. I mean tennis is about power these days so I do expect to get blown off the court sometimes, but there is still room for players with less power (especially in the women's game) and I don't see that reality in the game.
SDAWG
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby percy896 » 30 Apr 2015, 20:00

SDAWG wrote:Percy,
I'm not expecting them to really "choke" but it is frustrating to see the counter all the time. I can play a game against a player and they make ridiculous errors up until 40-0. Suddenly, all they hit are winners or they never make any more mistakes until they win the whole game! The exact opposite happens to my player especially on serve. Suddenly, on the big points, my player can't find a first serve to save her life LOL!!! So if there is something that makes them play the big points better (or at least it feels like there is) then the counter should exist too. I mean I expect Steffi Graf to hit a big serve or forehand on a big point but not Anna Smashnova lol (Yes I'm picking on her because she hits the biggest shots lol).

My frustration comes from the CPU level. There are players where I look at the stats and think I have no chance and I will beat them easily. Yet when I play more mid ranked players I struggle mightly or lose lol. I'm 24-5 against Serena, Venus, Lindsay, and Monica combined and they are four of the greatest players of all time! Conversely, I'm 5-12 against Zvonareva, Smashnova, Schnyder, Suarez, and Hantuchova all of whom have never won a slam! Zvonareva doesn't even have a backhand right now and I try to expose the weakness but even when she is on the run, it always somehow turns into her advantage. Despite Venus, Serena, and Lindsay being better power players, Smashnova is the one that seems like power supreme. Idk maybe that's where I'm messing up. I accept that it's really tough to beat Justine, Kim, Jennifer, Amelie, etc. But Smashnova? (LOL!) Are the lower ranked players randomly assigned point values? I mean right now Serena's power is about 96% and Venus is about 94% but Smashnova is 100 LOL!


They do get better on important points like you say, that's definitely true. I don't know the reason for that. And definitely the human first serves randomly missing or being slow on important points does happen.
-percy896
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Re: Computer Player Issues

Postby manutoo » 01 May 2015, 09:46

SDAWG,
1 & 2) you might have problem with the counter style ; you have to be close of the bounce to get fast incoming ball to produce fast strikes ; on slow response of your opponent, you might not have enough speed to do a winner on the next strike

3) Maybe try to switch to Elite controls ; it'll lead to a lot more errors, especially on these last instant strikes ; if you can get acclimate to it, maybe you'll enjoy more the game

4) I never deeply tested the Women World Tour, so it may have some imbalance in gameplay, compared to men Tour... :fear:
In a general way, it's very hard to push the CPU to the fault, much harder than in real life, it's something I'll try to change in TE4.
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