Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

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Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Bata » 29 Jan 2014, 01:09

I know this topic has been discussed multiple times but it remains frustrating. I was just playing the computer on incredible and still the computer made errors off of 4 out of 5 second slice serves. Yet acceleration serves get punished regularly. I'm not even putting any kick on the ball. Even when I do a slice serve down the middle of the box the computer misses half the time with an error. I've seen multiple threads about this. Is this ever going to be fixed? My serving points won on that match: 60% first serve points won. 80% second serve points won.

I've tinkered with return and reaction stats for the computer. Raised and lowered forehand and backhand consistency. Lowered counter to 0 and STILL computer can't return slice serves. Fix please!
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Bata » 29 Jan 2014, 01:14

Not to mention the laughable slice serve aces.
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby manutoo » 29 Jan 2014, 04:09

Hello,

actually there's 0 thread about this (AFAIR) ; usually, the problematic serve is the topspin or the kick B2 serve. So it might be 1st time I read about the slice serve...

I did a quick test against the CPU Incredible-5, and he didn't have issue returning my B2 and B1 sliced serves.

If you didn't mod you game, could you post a .dmo showing that issue in the 1st few points of the match ?
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby testo » 29 Jan 2014, 07:40

No Manu, there is another thread about this, i will seek it.

But to resume: when i serve a very sliced serve on 2nd, the cpu stands to close to the baseline and either misses the ball or returns it out/net.

I will send a dmo nextly...
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby testo » 29 Jan 2014, 07:47

Here is the link:

topic15-8611.php
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Lucian86 » 29 Jan 2014, 19:02

SuperLoooser wrote:Here is the link:

topic15-8611.php


manutoo wrote:actually there's 0 thread about this (AFAIR) ; usually, the problematic serve is the topspin or the kick B2 serve. So it might be 1st time I read about the slice serve...


So Manutoo was right...right ? :)


I rarely use the slice serve because I use the top-spin one since it's so effective (so I agree that indeed the CPU has some problems returning it)
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby testo » 29 Jan 2014, 21:30

No, it's the same ! In Both topic, the subject in the 2nd serve with B2+down Vs CPU. In this case, the CPU stands too close from the baseline and the rebound is too high. That's why he makes a lot of return errors.

Slice serve = top spin serve = B2 + down coz B2 alone is not a slice serve but just a weak & safe serve ( for me of course)

And i think he wants to talk about that
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Lucian86 » 29 Jan 2014, 21:48

SuperLoooser wrote:Slice serve = top spin serve = B2 + down


NO ! it's not the same thing SuperLoooser. B2+down is a top-spin serve...The slice serve is a B2+up which is a different motion. Do you know the difference ? here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOiaEkrP0ZU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2keKndmKGo

So yeah, the two threads talk about the same thing but what you actually referring to is the "top-spin" or the "kick serve", not the slice serve..Use the proper name ;)
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby testo » 29 Jan 2014, 21:51

ok understood

For me B2+down was slice serve

Btw in the 2 topics the pb is the B2+down second serve vs cpu
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Nigogu » 29 Jan 2014, 23:50

Lucian86 wrote:B2+down is a top-spin serve...

I thought B2+down was a kick serve... :roll:
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby ELTXETXU » 30 Jan 2014, 00:03

Nigogu wrote:I thought B2+down was a kick serve... :roll:


Kick serve is B1+ up then B1 + down + desired direction (or B2 or B1+B2)
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby manutoo » 30 Jan 2014, 03:40

Lucian86,
there's a "slice" lost in middle of the topic linked by SuperLoooser, but the topic itself is not about slice and the "slice" author didn't explained his case at all, so it didn't stick in my mind... :P

Everybody,
Anyway, the 1st time I tried sliced serve on 1st serves, so I re-did a test on 2nd serves, and with 6 serves (more than half of them on line or near line), I still got 0 fault from the CPU, so I'd still need a .dmo to see with what exact parameters this occurs...
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Bata » 30 Jan 2014, 04:56

I understand the confusion. I have each shot mapped to an individual key on my keyboard. I'm referring to the serve that happens when I use the key that corresponds to a slice shot. I guess that doesn't mean that when I use that button it's a slice serve.

I am using a nodded game. Can't provide a .dmo.

So, whatever serve corresponds with the same button combination as a slice shot is the problematic serve. I serve aces with that serve at 90 miles an hour. After reading the responses above I now realize that adding slice (by pressing up?) seems to improve the computer's ability to return serve.

Lastly, I know this thread has existed before because this is the second time I've posted it. :p

However I clearly only half understand what I'm complaining about.
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Lucian86 » 30 Jan 2014, 09:24

Nigogu wrote:I thought B2+down was a kick serve... :roll:


Lucian86 wrote: but what you actually referring to is the "top-spin" or the "kick serve"
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Re: Why is the computer so bad at returning slice serves?

Postby Hele. » 31 Jan 2014, 00:38

Slice service (first accelerated) is soooo effective on hard courts, especially indoors, not to mention grass. Especially on the diagonal, right side of the court. But that is like it in reallity, so I do not see any problem in it. Second slice serve is relatively easy to computer to turn it back. :shrug:
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