Percentage of top spin

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Percentage of top spin

Postby X-Panda (Guest) » 21 Jan 2014, 22:02

As I promised in my previous thread, I'm now raising this topic concerning the percentage of topspin on groundstrokes.

Let me clarify straight away that I play with 35 % topspin, I've also played with 25 % and 55% sometimes. This is partially personal bias again but I'm of the opininon that percentage of top spin around the value that I use should be optimum for best results. If forced, I'd say that from 15 to 30 % should give the best results on hard court, 5 to 20 on grass and 35 to 60 on clay. These numbers are arbitrary but let me explain my logic behind it:

Most of the top players on ATP tour have a moderate amount of topspin on their groundstrokes. Naming some players, I'd give amounts of 15 to 20 for Murray, Berdych and Wawrinka 20 to 30 for Djokovic, Federer, Dimitrov and Ferrer, 35 to 55 for Nadal and Gasquet. Some players like Del Potro, Raonic and Isner have maybe 5 to max 10 percent top spin on their shots. There's very few examples of players who'd hit with "100%", maybe some early 2000s clay courters like Gaudio. These players who have a moderate amount of topspin on their shots are also the most succesful. Why?

Their shots have enough margin for error but are still very offensive and penetrate the court quickly. Although the surfaces have become more similar over the years, they still differ and the best results come for those who have compromised between flat and loopy. Moderately top spin struck shots also work best when opening angles or wrong-footing one's opponents. Another bonus is dealing with slice. Players who use a moderate amount of topspin on their groundstrokes (and also have good footwork) deal with the slice best, since they can get under the ball and lift it. Lift it up and hit it with an arc but still flat enough that it speeds quickly.

But what do I see in this game? Too many extremes! Flat ballbashers who hit every shot with close to zero margin for error. I can understand if they smack high bouncing shots since they can hit flat from a great height. But hitting flat winners from lower than hip? Should be risky and result in many errors. Despite this, I see flat hitters (probably 0 % spin) hit full accelerations, linear winners off low slices that are below the net in height. That is most unnerving. I used to think that it's a question of the control system but I've encountered too many lately who whack consistent line-painting winners even with elite controls. No preview seems to be the only way to deal with this anomaly.

As for the other extreme, the 100% players, their effective play has already been reduced, presumably due to the many complaints from flatter hitters and variety players. One minor problem seems to be the slice still. 100% users should have more difficulties with lifting the slice, they can currently do the "Nadal thing" too much. Moderate and balanced gameplay should be what we're after.

In summary, moderate amount of spin should be rewarded and extremes discouraged. I've provided my reasoning. Feel free to disagree, but waiting for logical explanations if that is the case.
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby The Potro » 22 Jan 2014, 23:02

if rafa has most topspin by all times, shouldnt he be considered a 100% topspin player in a 0-100% spectrum?

and, in this game, ive already said it 1000 times. 99% of my opponents play 99% of the strokes a acceleration that 99% of the time goes in, in ELITE controls. their accelerations land long, while my accelerations (100% topspin) land short.
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby X-Panda (Guest) » 23 Jan 2014, 19:19

@The Potro: I guess it depends on how you interpret the topspin scale. I interpret it as a scale showing how much spin the groundstroke has, 0 % being completely linear, think about some of the Gonzalez or Blake forehands and 100% being very-very loopy and slow. Your interpretation seems to be a comparison of players, rather than shots per se. I don't know which way the game (author) calculates. I'll give you that some Nadal shanks or forehand returns from 7m behind the baseline can be close to 100%, maybe 90, but most of his rally shots are penetrating and not 100% moonballs, lest his offensive off-forehands. His backhand is much flatter or simply loopy when he's pushing it.

As to your critique, I sort of agree with it, constant accelerations are not tiring enough and there should be the risk factor taken into account as well. Half-volleying seems to be too easy as well, I've encountered many players lately who can half-volley from the baseline without errors, even on clay.
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby The Potro » 23 Jan 2014, 22:10

X-Panda (Guest) wrote:@The Potro: I guess it depends on how you interpret the topspin scale. I interpret it as a scale showing how much spin the groundstroke has, 0 % being completely linear, think about some of the Gonzalez or Blake forehands and 100% being very-very loopy and slow. Your interpretation seems to be a comparison of players, rather than shots per se. I don't know which way the game (author) calculates. I'll give you that some Nadal shanks or forehand returns from 7m behind the baseline can be close to 100%, maybe 90, but most of his rally shots are penetrating and not 100% moonballs, lest his offensive off-forehands. His backhand is much flatter or simply loopy when he's pushing it.

As to your critique, I sort of agree with it, constant accelerations are not tiring enough and there should be the risk factor taken into account as well. Half-volleying seems to be too easy as well, I've encountered many players lately who can half-volley from the baseline without errors, even on clay.

you know those linear accelerations that penetrate like a gun bullet. those are the most irritating about this game.
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby Nigogu » 23 Jan 2014, 23:51

I play with low topspin, even in clay, too few winners even with 20% :roll:
btw, you should create an account X-panda, you're active in the forum ;)
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby Heinrich von Westphalen » 24 Jan 2014, 08:09

I usually use around 80% at NewLine Synthetic, Cement and (nearly 100%) at clay. On very fast surfaces like grass or carpet around 50% ...

Kind regards,
Heinrich von Westphalen.
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby X-Panda (Guest) » 24 Jan 2014, 16:54

@Nigogu: I'm kinda lazy so I may or may not create an account. If I'm not lazy then I'm too occupied studying. Or both :)

We'll see if I do it or not. Thanks for participating in the discussion, great to have constructive talks.
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby Nigogu » 24 Jan 2014, 17:06

You're not lazy, you do LONG LONG posts ;)
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby X-Panda (Guest) » 24 Jan 2014, 18:41

I meant overall. When picking up a task I do it thoroughly of course.
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Re: Percentage of top spin

Postby n 201 » 01 Feb 2014, 11:29

Rafa is the greatest topspin player ever....may be Rod laver was close though.....so make rafa's as 100%...I also think Sergi Brugeira also generated heavy spin but his ground strokes are slower than Rafa :wink:
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