How to flatten out strokes

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How to flatten out strokes

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 28 Dec 2013, 17:27

Hi guys,

I found out a way of flatten out strokes (sort of..).

What I do is I combine the short acc with the normal acc, like this : charge with short acc (foreward+acc), then switch and charge with normal acc. before you hit the ball. This doesn't work every time but it does work, you also need good stamina for.

What this actually does is, it reduces the topspin and it hits harder then the normal acc (b1+b2). Because the normal acc. still has some spin which slows the ball. It also drops shorter then the normal acc. by reducing the flying effect of the ball and it's not as precise so it's more risky. If you do this while you're not balanced you can easily make unforced errors. You can also combine it with the agressive lob (back+acc.) instead of the short acc., but it will give a different effect, try to experience with it.

I actually like this "combination", but there is still one problem; It doesn't flatten out enough (only if you have tons of time and the ball is very slow, like a save shot). It just flats out a little bit.

So what I want to ask Manuto is, can you make it more flat ?

One of the major issues in this game is that you can't flatten out strokes like in real life.
If you can do this, this major problem could be fixed.

Of course this is my opinion and I would like to hear others aswell.

Thanks
Yasin Ozkan
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby manutoo » 29 Dec 2013, 06:17

Hello,

it doesn't flatten out the ball, it's just make the aiming very large (coz you start your acc strike preparation very late), and thus can shorten the ball or make it a bit longer, depending of your luck.

I won't give flat shot to topspin player, else they'll be utterly overpowered and no one would have any reason to play with low spin.
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 29 Dec 2013, 18:18

That is why pro players today use spin on their balls, to have that advantage. No wonder this game is so ir-realistic. Potential wasted...
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Algo » 29 Dec 2013, 18:25

Everyone wants to win and if people know a way to do that easier, they'll go for it (reason to forbid certain shots or strategies in competitive matchs, for example)

If something like this is done, everyone would play Nadal-ish... that would be a waste.
Man, he shouldn't be allowed in a tennis court... ok, went too far :whistle:
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 29 Dec 2013, 18:53

Look Manuto,

What I want is not that it flattens out completely, like 0 topspin, no.
But at least enough to hit winners where there is alot open space, thats how it is in real life..
And count the topspin points in the 780 point system, there you go. Solved.
Last edited by Yasin Ozkan on 29 Dec 2013, 18:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 29 Dec 2013, 18:58

Algo wrote:Everyone wants to win and if people know a way to do that easier, they'll go for it (reason to forbid certain shots or strategies in competitive matchs, for example)

If something like this is done, everyone would play Nadal-ish... that would be a waste.
Man, he shouldn't be allowed in a tennis court... ok, went too far :whistle:


Oh and 100 FH BH 100 service 0 Topsin 100 speed is legit ? What are you even talkin about...
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby manutoo » 30 Dec 2013, 03:42

yasinozkan wrote:And count the topspin points in the 780 point system, there you go. Solved.

I didn't say it'd be a "bit overpowered", but "utterly overpowered" ; so that'd be far to solve anything.

EDIT:
pre-charging with short acc, lob or anything doesn't have any influence on the acceleration itself ; it just triggers the autopos and thus makes your player better positioned to hit the accel.
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby n 201 » 30 Dec 2013, 08:13

yasinozkan wrote:Hi guys,

I found out a way of flatten out strokes (sort of..).

What I do is I combine the short acc with the normal acc, like this : charge with short acc (foreward+acc), then switch and charge with normal acc. before you hit the ball. This doesn't work every time but it does work, you also need good stamina for.

What this actually does is, it reduces the topspin and it hits harder then the normal acc (b1+b2). Because the normal acc. still has some spin which slows the ball. It also drops shorter then the normal acc. by reducing the flying effect of the ball and it's not as precise so it's more risky. If you do this while you're not balanced you can easily make unforced errors. You can also combine it with the agressive lob (back+acc.) instead of the short acc., but it will give a different effect, try to experience with it.

I actually like this "combination", but there is still one problem; It doesn't flatten out enough (only if you have tons of time and the ball is very slow, like a save shot). It just flats out a little bit.

So what I want to ask Manuto is, can you make it more flat ?

One of the major issues in this game is that you can't flatten out strokes like in real life.
If you can do this, this major problem could be fixed.

Of course this is my opinion and I would like to hear others aswell.

Thanks

Don't try this all the time....Way too many errors than normal. Yasino you should try playing with short acceleration cross court. They are little flat compared to normal balls. However there is a danger with this. If your opponent detects your short cross court acceleration, you are in big trouble of defending the point. I know it's hard to play with top-spin but for me it works both ways. I can play with and without topspin; and depending on surface i change stats to 0 to 100 topspin.
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby n 201 » 30 Dec 2013, 08:18

manutoo wrote:Hello,

it doesn't flatten out the ball, it's just make the aiming very large (coz you start your acc strike preparation very late), and thus can shorten the ball or make it a bit longer, depending of your luck.

I won't give flat shot to topspin player, else they'll be utterly overpowered and no one would have any reason to play with low spin.

Manutoo, do you mean that these strokes are just random?! How can a computer game work on random basis. It's impossible. I think you probably developed a formula(like prime-number strategy or something else related to probability?) of when these shots can be played. If someone knows about this, he can know when to hit these shots and can take advantage of these miss-hits.
P.S. Computer doesn't count luck lol :wink:
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 30 Dec 2013, 14:17

manutoo wrote:I didn't say it'd be a "bit overpowered", but "utterly overpowered" ; so that'd be far to solve anything.


And i didn't say flatten it to 0 topspin, just flatter (i dno maybe half) + make topspin in the 780 point system, the higher the spin the more points it would require, that will solve the problem... It's not rocket science now is it ?

Right now 0 topsin with 100 FH BH is utterly overpowered. There's no way in real life someone can hit that low constantly in every situations without making errors.. So if you really care about balance, then balance your game because it's ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh yeah and about pre-charging: another major flaw in this game... Dno how you come up with this..
In real life you position slowly which is also part of tennis strategy, but if you do it in this game you will lack power because you didn't "pre-charge"(which forces you to stand still). Pre-charge should be trowen out.
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby manutoo » 31 Dec 2013, 05:36

yasinozkan wrote:It's not rocket science now is it ?.

It actually kinda is => topic15-14075.php & https://www.google.com/search?q=site:ww ... s+about%22 .
More than 100 updates, more than 1000 thousand gameplay changes & tuning, and tons of whining comments for many "slight" changes.
Here, you don't propose a "slight" change, but a game changer one that'd totally change the balance of the game, how do you think it'd go ?

And 0% topspin is not OP ; it's just much easier to handle, as it's a 1-dimentional game style, so beginners can get good at it relatively fast enough. But experienced users usually switch to more topspin as it allows to do more things.
Btw, I think no n°1 of the Online World Tour ever had 0% topspin, except maybe in early TE2009 time, before I did several important changes linked to topspin ; morever, I think they all had a fair amount of Topspin, ie: 30% or more (online Tour players / Mods, correct me if I'm wrong ;) Note: Florian doesn't count, he was n°1 only coz Voja requested to be out of the rankings).

I don't like topic hijacking, and I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-charging", I guess you're talking about the charge system, ie: the preparation ; if you're perfectly positioned, this preparation time does almost nothing on your strikes' power ; it only changes the precision of your aiming zone (with the exception of the shoulder height acceleration).
And the "slowly positioning" is done by the AutoPos, so players can focus on their arm(s) just before the strike, not their legs, and prepare their strike efficiently.
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Algo » 31 Dec 2013, 13:32

Perhaps the only one that wasn't a top-spin nut was S.Williamz, but that was very early in the tour.


yazinoskan, as manutoo stated, it would be legit, as it's not overpowered as having some (or much) top spin.
I've always been a 0% top spin player.
I've never succeeded :whistle:
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Yasin Ozkan » 31 Dec 2013, 19:45



Well, then you've should have chosen to created rockets, at least you could be rich.

About pre-charge and slow positioning, that wasn't what I was trying to say but anyhow, it doesn't matter anymore.

It's your game, suit yourself.

Algo wrote:yazinoskan, as manutoo stated, it would be legit, as it's not overpowered as having some (or much) top spin.
I've always been a 0% top spin player.
I've never succeeded


thanks for your feedback
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Algo » 04 Jan 2014, 21:27

manutoo wrote:Hello,

Else they'll be utterly overpowered and no one would have any reason to play with low spin.

I hadn't had the chance to play with current heavy-spinners (I was thinking of people like Tog or Mr Schmith) so just now I came to this thought:

They already are, thank god you won't do that.
Man it's impossible to play them
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Re: How to flatten out strokes

Postby Elias » 04 Jan 2014, 22:06

Maybe increasing a bit the height window range for triggering shoulder height accels could help a bit (not sure about balance flat vs. spinner so i won't fuss about it, though somehow, the shoulder height acceleration emulates a flattened shot, power wise, so it could maybe help balancing, if needed, having some playstyles (or spin stat dependant ?) being able to flatten out, eg. shoulder height accel, on more occasions than others, it would be nice for example, to see defenders being able to trigger some shoulder accels sometimes, but the window for triggering it should be lower than for a PB ofc. In my opinion heavy spin is especially effective along with positive (>power) precision, allowing for fast charging and hitting crisp short crosses, without this asset, their remaining straight accels, at equal power, compared to a flat hitter, are much slower and not much winner prone.

Though i think the main issue Algo is talking about, regarding spinners is probably their defense potential i guess ? If so .. i'd say it's also tied to the stat scheme used, moreover the relation power vs. speed (more globally : baseline defense potential). i'd rather see fewer defense issues, and spinners able to play agressive effectively enough (wich is adjustable power wise with a free stat setup but more difficult with caped stats with realistic or fair modes imo).
Last edited by Elias on 05 Jan 2014, 00:12, edited 2 times in total.
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