Counter player strength (AI)

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Counter player strength (AI)

Postby wjdygert » 12 Jun 2013, 16:24

Has the counter player type's strength been reduced in any recent builds? I'm completing a career with version 1.0f -Build 96 and haven't updated yet.

In the version I'm playing, counter players are ridiculously difficult to beat. They return power shots with both power AND accuracy (tons of line shots and crazy angles). Slices are the only effective shots against them and they even handle heavy topspin with no problem. I don't think my problems against them are because I'm bad at the game; I can handle Djokovic, Federer and Nadal at the same difficulty level that counter players destroy me. :-?
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby manutoo » 13 Jun 2013, 05:21

Hello,

no "counter" stuff in the changelog here : topic15-12146.php .

Counter has been slightly nerfed in v1.0f (Build 94), especially for Women in Tour.

What difficulty are you playing with ?
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby wjdygert » 13 Jun 2013, 14:19

Pro, sublevel 7, elite controls, slow autopositioning

I would suggest that you consider reducing the effectiveness of the counter skill for returning topspin shots and that you reduce the accuracy of counter shots, especially cross-court. But if no one else has problems dealing with this and it hasn't been nerfed since my version, it might just be me.
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby manutoo » 14 Jun 2013, 04:36

I did a quick test, and it seems to be balanced well enough on Master-10 Elite / Medium AutPos.
Maybe your problem comes from the Slow AutoPos ; Counter plays slightly faster than other opponents (as they stand closer of the baseline), and thus you may lack a bit of time to do a decent positioning + preparation.
In all cases, they surely require that we adapt our way to play against them, as they play quite differently from the the other players (a bit like the volleyers & the top spin defenders).
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby wjdygert » 14 Jun 2013, 15:53

Thanks for the reply. For now I guess I'll go to normal AutoPos and increase the difficulty setting.

It does still seem a bit odd to me that counter players can redirect heavy topspin shots so effectively. For example, Djokovic redirects Nadal well, but only when Nadal doesn't get good depth or spin on his shots. So long as Nadal remains aggressive while rallying, Djokovic can't dominate the point. In Tennis Elbow, I can hit a heavy topspin shot deep into a corner, and a counter opponent will hit it down the line or cross-court with as much control and power as if I'd given him a simple flat shot. Slice IS effective against counters in the game, and I'd argue that topspin should be as well depending on what your topspin percentage setting is.
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby WTA » 17 Jun 2013, 08:14

I experience the same. The CPUs with counter style are crazy, hitting forehand and backhand winners on the lines no matter how deep my shots are, and the speed of the shots is usually from 138km/h to even 149km/h, which is quite impossible to defend.

Also, the way they return serve is ridiculous. They can hit a few return winners in a row. I know I am not serving very well around 16xkm/h, but hitting return winners like that is unbelievable.

P.S. I am playing on the WTA tour and my level is Pro 10. I used to play the very old version (not sure what version it is) and I have just updated recently to 2013 one.
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby manutoo » 18 Jun 2013, 05:12

WTA,
if your old version was older than 1.0f, did you feel some improvements when your opponent is of counter style with TE2013 ?
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby WTA » 30 Jun 2013, 06:27

Well, I am not sure what my old version is, but now I just find it completely difficult to beat a CPU with counter style

And I don't even understand how could they hit a groundstroke with speed like 140km/h or above, as my forehand strength is way above theirs. And I can only hit around 128km/h at max.

I don't have that much difficulty in dealing players of other styles, but a "counter" one. And it seems like they seldom miss
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby manutoo » 01 Jul 2013, 07:37

WTA,
the most important skill for Counter players is the Counter skill ; it's the one they need to do powerful strikes ; the FH & BH powers are secondary.
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby WTA » 01 Jul 2013, 09:05

manutoo wrote:WTA,
the most important skill for Counter players is the Counter skill ; it's the one they need to do powerful strikes ; the FH & BH powers are secondary.


But my opponent has only 14% in their counter skill and she can hit groundstroke around 140km/h??
this doesn't make sense to me
they are unplayable
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Re: Counter player strength (AI)

Postby manutoo » 02 Jul 2013, 04:08

WTA,
that seems suspicious ; could you post a .dmo showing that ? (indicate the score where I could see such strikes)
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