Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

General discussions about the tennis games Tennis Elbow
Forum rules
Speak English and don't hijack topics, troll, use profanities nor insults

Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby Laskaris » 07 May 2013, 10:45

By and large, I think the game models players' real capabilities pretty well in its stats. However, there are some stats that just seem quite a way "off" to me. One example is Djokovic's serve and volle stats.

Djokovic's serve has power 50, consistency 49 and precision 47. Djokovic's serve is way more powerful than Federer's (who has power 41) and almost as powerful as Sampras (who has power 51). I don't regard that as realistic at all. Djokovic has a good serve, but it isn't that much more powerful than Federer's, and certainly not in the same league as Sampras. I think Djokovic's serve should be more along the lines of someone like Agassi.

Djokovic's volleys are also way too good in my view. He has forehand volley 39, backhand volley 40, smash 51 and net presence 43. By comparison, Federer has forehand volley 39, backhand volley 41, smash 42 and net presence 41. Overall, Djokovic's volleys in the game are on the same level as Federer's, he has a slightly highter net presence, and his smash is way better. Again, I think this is quite unrealistic. Djokovic is a baseline player who does not often come to the net, and while he is a decent volleyer considering his playstyle, he is certainly nowhere near as good in that department as Federer. I think Djokovic's volley skills should be reduced to be closer to players like Murray or Roddick, maybe a bit better.

My suggestion:

Serve power 43, consistency 42, precision 42. Forehand volley 37, backhand volley 38, smash 43, net presence 39. These are still pretty good stats, but they are not as over-the-top as the current ones.
Laskaris
court crocodile
court crocodile
 
Messages: 28
Gaming Since: 12 Dec 2011, 17:19

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby manutoo » 08 May 2013, 04:32

Hello,

it's irrelevant to look at skills in that way ; as the skills are normalized, their level depends of all other skills level of the same player, and thus can't be compared to other players' skills.
The best way to compare these 2 players is to start a new game on 2012 (Djoko strength = #1, Fed = #2 +1% bonus, so they're quite close), and check their character sheet. I had a look and Djoko is clearly lacking a bit in FH/BH while having a bit too much in volley, so I tuned down his volley skills by 5 points each in the .ini .
About serve, I think it's ok, look here : http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/s ... 601ms.html ; Djoko got 120mph avrg, Fed 118 ; if you look other matches, Djoko is always around 120mph, and Fed is more around 116, which is more or less equivalent of the 9% service power skill difference they got in-game. So I lowered his serve skills by 1 point each, to keep the same level than before (coz less points in volley gives more points in service, as it's normalized).
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15791
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby Laskaris » 08 May 2013, 18:53

Thank you for the info.

Can you explain a bit more how the stats are "normalized", about how, exactly, this process works?
Laskaris
court crocodile
court crocodile
 
Messages: 28
Gaming Since: 12 Dec 2011, 17:19

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby manutoo » 09 May 2013, 06:00

To norm the skills, the engine raises (or lower) the skills till their estimated total strength reach the needed value for the objective rank.
For example, the #1 strength is around 90% average. But each skill is pondered according the player style ; ie: volley skills won't help much a defender to raise his strength.
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15791
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby Laskaris » 09 May 2013, 12:07

In your first reply, you wrote:

manutoo wrote:it's irrelevant to look at skills in that way ; as the skills are normalized, their level depends of all other skills level of the same player, and thus can't be compared to other players' skills.


This is what confuses me.

I look inside the Players.ATP.ini file. Let's say Djokovic has smash 51 in that file while Federer has smash 42. Now, I assume this means that, for the same rank (let's say #1), the game would normalize the skill so that Djokovic has a higher smash skill than Federer. Is this correct? And if not, what does the higher number in the .ini file mean?

So I lowered his serve skills by 1 point each, to keep the same level than before (coz less points in volley gives more points in service, as it's normalized).


I don't understand this, either. Why would less points in volley give more points in service?
Laskaris
court crocodile
court crocodile
 
Messages: 28
Gaming Since: 12 Dec 2011, 17:19

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby adner » 09 May 2013, 17:35

Laskaris wrote:I don't understand this, either. Why would less points in volley give more points in service?

Because then a player has a lower average and all skills would be normalised by a higher value to make up for it.
adner
crazy of the little yellow ball
crazy of the little yellow ball
 
Messages: 749
Gaming Since: 17 Nov 2008, 18:26
Location: Poland

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby manutoo » 10 May 2013, 05:35

Laskaris,
a quick example; imagine 2 players : 1 has 40 in all his skills, and the other one has 50 in all his skills. If you tell the engine they should be #1, then both will end with 90% in all their skills, if 90% is the required strength to be #1.
2nd example; you have a player with 60 in his FH, and all other skills at 30 ; to be #1, he'll likely end up with 100% in FH and about 88% in other skills ; if all other skills are 45, it may give something like 95% for his FH and 89% for other skills... etc...
ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15791
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby Laskaris » 10 May 2013, 18:32

Ah, I see. Thanks for the information.
Laskaris
court crocodile
court crocodile
 
Messages: 28
Gaming Since: 12 Dec 2011, 17:19

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby Laskaris » 10 May 2013, 22:27

One more question: are all skills linked and being averaged in this way, or are some groups separate from others? What about the physical skills, the mental skills? I notice that some mental skills, like Concentration, have much higher numbers than the others in the Ist Players.ATP.ini file.
Laskaris
court crocodile
court crocodile
 
Messages: 28
Gaming Since: 12 Dec 2011, 17:19

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby manutoo » 11 May 2013, 04:30

ManuTOO
== Mana Games ==

>> I don't answer Private Message, except if it's really a _Private_ topic <<
User avatar
manutoo
Game Author
 
Messages: 15791
Gaming Since: 24 Jan 2004, 15:38
Location: France

Re: Djokovic: better serve and volley stats than Federer?

Postby Laskaris » 11 May 2013, 09:04

Doh! Thanks. I had read that section a long time ago, to learn how to mod the calendar, but had forgotten about it mentioning everything about the skills.
Laskaris
court crocodile
court crocodile
 
Messages: 28
Gaming Since: 12 Dec 2011, 17:19


Return to Tennis Elbow

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], CCBot [Bot], Petal [Bot] and 1 guest